It’s sorta funny, cause the truly elite players don’t care about this. This won’t effect me. I routinely scrap ilvl 400/410 gear. This will only affect people who want to progress through norm and heroic. Or those who DID progress through norm/heroic and now get to enjoy the fruits of thei… oh wait no… they coulda just waited and completed a shell game half way through the tier to get the same result…
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I’m sorry to say, but the “community wall” is not ilvl, it’s experience.
When the system was “gear score” driven, yes it was 100% ilvl, but that is no longer the case.
Should you go through the same experiences, whether they be normal raids or lower M+ you will eventually climb over that wall.
Changes like this generally tend to maintain the wall, in terms of ilvl at least. With the increase in available rewards, the community accept that the average ilvl of players will increase and thus increase their own requirements as such to be in line. Essentially they just place even more emphasis on things like raider io as a requirement making it harder for people to enter content.
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Yep, exactly. Those doing the peak of content will not be affected as they still have the highest gear possible, the reducing of the gap matters little to them.
It’s the people who are still progressing meaningful content but find their rewards now lack lustre compared to easily achieved WQs that lose the most.
I guess I think of the leveling process as boot-camp; and then the preliminary expac content as your MOS school.
Kids at 19 get to shoot 50 cal machine guns in the corps.
Do they give them zero training, hand them a 50 cal machine gun, then send them out to the shooting range with no supervision though?
Cause that’d be the fair analogy here.
Don’t worry though, at least we didn’t give them the nuke…
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For heroic raiding, lfr/norm is the bootcamp.
For m+10, 0-9 is the bootcamp.
110 levels of grinding through your spec = bootcamp
10 levels of expac content = MOS school.
None of that prepares you for a +10… or heroic raid… absolutely none of it. Even Normal mode dungeons don’t have any bite to make you realize that there was a buff/debuff that should’ve killed you (or would kill you in a +10).
The 110 levels of grinding was… grinding…
The 10 levels of expac content was… more grinding killing mobs with almost guaranteed success.
Normal dungeons are almost guaranteed success.
Heroic dungeons at the start of the expac have some progress, but nowadays? There’s always one high ilvl to carry the group making it almost guaranteed success.
A +10 is in no way a guaranteed success… With an inexperienced group, it’s actually more likely to be a failure.
It might open some doors for M+ pugs, I wouldn’t know. But in terms of Mythic raiding, ilvl isn’t going to open as many doors as you think it will.
As somebody who’s been a contact for guild recruitment for a very, very long time, a person’s ilvl has never factored into whether I look at somebody or not. A good raid team has always been able to rapidly gear somebody, if the person shows promise. It’s the person that matters, not their gear.
Here are the things that will catch my eye if somebody wants to join our team:
- Do they have good progression on the current tier, and good logs, adjusted for their ilvl bracket?
- If not, do they have a history of Cutting Edge achievements from past expansions, or at minimum a history of Mythic kills deep into each tier, when they were current?
- If neither of the above, do they have amazing heroic logs adjusted for their ilvl?
Note “adjusted for their ilvl”. Higher ilvl isn’t going to make somebody’s logs look better, it’s just going to move them into a higher bracket.
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Unfortunately the levelling process of the game is worth little to nothing except for being a time-gate, the game teaches you next to nothing during this period.
Based on my opinion.
In your analogy the levelling process would be more akin to schooling where you don’t learn anything about weapons handling and does not prepare you for your military service.
Boot-camp would be after hitting 120 beginning to do your first Heroic/Mythic dungeons, with normal raids being your first time in the corps learning to really shoot.
It’s fine because let’s be honest, gear is arbitrary nowadays anyway.
Right - you think boot camp and a couple weeks at an MOS school prepares you for war? There’s more that goes into war than just some basic training beyond what weapons you have - but you need the weapons to perform in war, and your squadron/platoon is better served if you’re geared well.
Except you HAVE the weapons for a +10 at 385… Going in at 400 is overgearing it… Just like going into heroic at 400 is overgearing that as well?
There’s my raid groups wowprogress site. Go look up our first M CoL kill… Only 1 toon is 400+. It isn’t til H Mekka that our group starts becoming more than 400+.
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Not alone - but it enables them to maximize their potential, which is needed for progression content.
Again - you guys aren’t wrong - you’re more than welcome to have your opinion.
I just have a different opinion.
Explain to me, specifically, how a higher ilvl is going to get you into a Mythic raiding guild.
Mythic guilds require a minimum ilvl (and often HoA lvl also) because there’s a correlation between output/performance and gear - provided that the player know’s how to play their class.
Experience and logs fill in the background info on whether or not the person know’s how to use their gear, provided they’ve met the minimum standards.
I am not sure your gear ilvl would be on the top 5 list for most mythic guilds.
My guild has 3 down on mythic BoD. We are extremely close on Opulence. We cleared heroic Crucible opening week. I am not bragging, just giving a baseline for where we are at. There are a ton of guilds much further. I am not trying to say we are special or anything.
A person’s ilvl would have absolutely nothing to do with anyone joining my guild.
We don’t care about your gear. When I was in an extremely high end EverQuest guild that was extremely hard core…We didn’t care about an app’s gear either.
Gear is easy to fix. Gear doesn’t define you.
How you play defines you. If you are showing amazing ilvl parses at 380 ilvl, people will see that. Pick you up immediately. Throw a bunch of extra gear at you and watch you soar.
Your gear with applying is basically a non factor. Outside of probably showing basic class knowledge (in regards to picking correct azerite traits).
This is hogwash. Go look at Mythic guilds that are recruiting, very few of them list a minimum ilvl. (I mean actual progression guilds, like 4/9 or higher.)
There is also zero correlation between performance and gear. Gear doesn’t help you dodge things or perform mechanics correctly. Nor is gear an indicator of future performance. Anybody looking at logs will look at the ilvl adjusted logs, as well as kill times, because those provide a far better indicator of player skill, as well as that player’s skill vs the rest of their team for that boss fight.
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Their ability to “maximize their potential” is 100% on them. If their maximal potential is 20k dps in their current gear, yet they can only hit 10k dps… Their relative potential doesn’t increase by giving them gear that lets them do 30k dps… They’ll still only do 50% of their new maximal potential and pull 15k dps.
The problem is that at that point, with the gear their in… they’re expected to pull 30k dps. Because THAT is their maximal potential, and that is what’s expected for mythic boss encounters.
Not to mention the fact that DPS is only 1 metric to consider… If they get squashed flat by a mechanic, they do zero dps. I hate to break it to you… but lots of people simply are not good enough at the game to do mythic raiding. Guess what… That’s ok.
I’m no where near good enough to get even close to a WF or heck even a world sub 50… I’m OK with that.
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I don’t know what to tell you guys.
You’re all tiffy because other people get gear. Boo hoo?
I mean - this is a game. Let people play with the super soakers if they’re willing to put some time in and have fun.
The ones that can aim well will do better, and the one’s that can’t won’t.
It literally does you no harm if others are geared. I don’t know what else to tell you types of people - but for those of you worried about people complaining…you’re doing an awful lot of complaining.
I’m outta here for the night! <3