36/38 Specs in the game get access to an interrupt

I’m not saying it isn’t. If you weren’t on a weird crusade, you’d be able to read that when I say that it’s a bad thing and their reasoning is poor.

But it’s not make-or-break. People are also blaming PI, but honestly I think Blizzard just HIGHLY overestimates Mind Control. It’s a very strong control in PvP. It’s absolutely awful in PvE outside extremely niche scenarios. But it seems like Blizzard just rates it super highly. There’s no other reason for them to have added talents that interact with it, or continue to try bringing Dominate Mind (which doesn’t even WORK in PvP) back.

Fact is, we won’t know unless they continue to post candidly - which I hope they still will despite attacks on the devs specifically.

Nobody is saying it would “MAKE OR BREAK PRIESTS” as a class at all. We had utility and they took it away. The reasons in which they did this are confusing and it doesn’t speak to other healers getting further utility.

This is a discussion about why do 36/38 specs have access to an interrupt and it was a war crime to give it to DISC/HOLY.

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Uh, there’s several people who are, and are calling for a removal of PI to get an interrupt - something that would be a far worse trade.

Yup, they shouldn’t have. Nobody said they should. I also will quote myself again here:

I’m saying that people freaking out about interrupts are really focusing on something that doesn’t matter in the grand scheme. Removal of Shining Force and Smend are way worse on their own. The refusal to add Spectral Guise because of mages and rogues is silly.

But interrupts? Honestly the priest class can live without it. I’d LIKE to have it on our tree, I just don’t understand everyone freaking out about interrupts specifically. There’s way worse stuff to lose.

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I don’t think that lacking an interrupt specifically is a big deal. The problem is that the stated design philosophy straight up doesn’t make sense if priests are the ONLY healers that don’t get it. They can’t say that they don’t view interrupts as not necessary but then give it to everyone else. Holy pally and resto druid might not even talent into theirs all of the time, but they have the option if needed.

And yeah. Shining force gone but resto shaman gets thunderstorm?

Can’t have an aoe stun because other classes have it?

Can’t stealth because other specs can?

Can’t have mobility. Can’t have useful defensives.

Can’t put things in the talent tree because of pvp balance.

None of those things would be a huge issue in isolation. It’s just the combination of all of those things and the flawed reasoning that seems to only apply to priests. I don’t even plan on playing priest in DF and that post still feels like a smack in the face.

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Beautiful point. This needs to be a sticky.

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There’s plenty of outrage over the removal of shining force and smend.

  1. this isn’t a thread about those

  2. while not having an interrupt might not be the end of the priest class, being at a distinct disadvantage for literal zero reason is a very questionable design choice.

If every single other spec is getting an interrupt, it’s no longer just a form of utility that some classes bring, it’s now a necessary fundamental part of classes.

Encounters and dungeons expect them to be an option and not having one, even if it’s covered by the rest of your group, makes you less valuable. Being less valuable simply because of the class you chose on character select is no way to create engaging classes.

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I honestly firmly believe that all classes should lose this cc madness.
Every class shouldn’t be able to do everything. Not everyone should have a interrupt, hard silence, stun, disorent, heal, snare, etc.

Things need to be toned down And the game should be redesign with that in mind.

But this most likely won’t happen lol

That’d be fine if priest wasn’t the only class targeted by this logic. I’d agree if we’d be seeing pruning across the board on that front :man_shrugging:

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I mean, this sort of design harkens back to Mists of Pandaria, which while that expansion had it’s flaws, was pretty widely regarded as one of the better expansion for class design.

I think all classes having a lot of tools is much more interesting.

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This is a thread memeing about interrupts that arose when there were like 5 threads where people were just talking about interrupts.

I just posted that I didn’t think interrupts were that big a deal, and memeing about 36/38 specs or whatever is silly since we could just be saying 34/38 in current wow, and there are more important battles to fight. Other people replied to me and I clarified.

This is only really true of solo encounters, and they’re never tuned such that interrupts are necessary. Group content is not tuned around having ~9 interrupts every 20 seconds, and just hasn’t ever been. Saying it is is being disingenuous to further your point.

Just call it like it is - Not having an interrupt when everyone else has access feels bad. That’s all you need to say. You do not need to toss in nonsense about how encounter design is so hard and tuned a certain way/etc. It’s just not true.

There were a lot of complaints about button bloat back then, and they were absolutely valid.

I think when people talk MoP class design, they really mean talent design. The talents in MoP were all solid choices fighting each other, and there were often reasons to take each one of all 3 choices in any given talent tier for most classes. And gameplay style had been fairly locked in for a lot of them in a pretty good place.

But when it comes to the amount of buttons they had, god, hunters had upwards of 60 keybinds in PvP. It was a nightmare for anyone but the most hardcore.

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Me saying encounters and dungeons are tuned around having interrupts isn’t disingenuous. But saying 9 interrupts every 20 seconds is pretty hyperbolic.

It’s not just a matter of not having an interrupt feels bad, we are at a functional disadvantage to every other spec in the game. This game is designed with a certain level of interrupts in mind, there’s interrupt rotations on bosses and things you need to interrupt in dungeons.

Interrupts help reduce the amount of damage your group is taking, and just having an extra one as an option let’s you make larger pulls with more safety. It let’s you mess up interrupts with back ups.

Nowhere am I saying that missing one interrupt is going to auto wipe a group or anything of the sort, but it’s not just a “feels bad”.

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The only thing I didn’t like about this other than Blizzard’s logic…was the somewhat overreaction from the community. Don’t take this the wrong way, it’s normal to feel helpless or angry about this nerf without any logic. But what I could see in those days… was people saying that the priest was destroyed, he was not going to be useful, etc, etc. Although it is true that it loses a bit of utility, it still has some abilities that make it unique to other healers, for example:

no healer has mind control.

none have mind soothe.

no other has PI.

no other can reduce defenses.

no one else can lure their allies with leap.

I’m not saying that this is going to be a big deal. but compared to others (I’m not saying all), they have… something unique, because the rest of the healers’ utilities for the party are other classes, whether they are healers, dps or tanks.

PS: This is from my point of view, even so I don’t agree with the logic behind this, because if it was so… then the shammy should apply the same, right? (considering he has over 10 utility spells in his kit)

MC sucks

Mind soothe is incredibly niche and doesn’t do anything that can’t be done dozens of other ways.

PI…most of us don’t even want this

Symbol of hope is just a defensive cooldown with extra steps

Leap is niche

You really don’t know what you’re talking about. I genuinely don’t understand why you’re coming into priest threads just to say “you’re fine” and then indirectly crap on shaman.

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MC, you can use it in some circumstances. It is not yet known when you can use it in your favor in the next expansion (there may be enemies where you can take advantage of the mechanics like in the Workshop), if not, then it loses power but it remains to be seen (not only the new ones, but the old ones).

Mind Soothe, is very useful to skip or at least save you invi pot sometimes. In addition, the vast majority of dungeons have enemies that are humanoid, so you can get something out of it (I’m not saying all of them).

Symbol of hope, you will make your party and especially your tank, restore their defensive, making it easier for you to heal and for your party to resist (as long as they know how to use their defensive cds) plus you restore mana.

Leap, you have to learn to use it. Until now in S4 I found more prominence when I do my +20 on pugs… by people who want to do dps in order to eat mechanics (which I don’t allow because they can die).

PI, You don’t want it and nobody would want to have that (it’s also very stressful for me), but you have to get used to it since it’s part of the kit whether you like it or not. Unless they make it only work for the priests themselves.

And no. For my part, the theme of the shaman, druid, priest, etc. is worth a lot. I’m literally using the same phrase I read on the priests forum: “If we have a lot of buttons… then the same would apply to druids, wouldn’t it?” or “easily remove the option to kick/interrupt other healers”.
If you were attentive to the comments of priests, you can find those parts, only that I modified the one from the druid to the one from the Shaman, I can also say from Hpally, MW, etc. Because it will be “the same” in quotes, that’s why I say that the reaction was very exaggerated, but it is understood and I hope that they can return the shining force and give them an interrupt. still do not underestimate its benefits.
I can also comment because he is my priest, he is my alter with whom I do M+ (20-21) as well as my other healers (Rshammy and MW).

Why is symbol of hope in the discussionm that’s not class utility at all. That’s solely in the hpriest toolkit.

All your points are ok. But you’re giving way too much credits to situationnal habilities that don’t see all that much use.

Mind soothe isn’t used to skip all that much, for the first 8 dungeons of sl there was really 2 dungeons in which it was used once to skip one pack. In both cases, the invisi pot could do it. Or sap/emprison and whatnot… I mean, it’s a decent situationnal button but it gives nothing during combat… it’s mostly just a flavor of something that exists in other forms. Fine in itself sure but still very very situationnal…

Same can be said for everything you’re defending. It’s all interresting and flavorful, but most of these see very few use in most content.

Getting new tools is debatable but we’ve been stripped of some tools as well. So saying priest has a nice flavor isn’t going to give us our tools back…

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That is literally what you’re talking about when you say encounters are balanced around interrupts. Average interrupt time is ~15 seconds. Some are faster, silence is slower. Average them out and you’ve got 9 interrupts every 20 seconds. If every class needs an interrupt because encounter design expects them to be an option that every class has - then that’s about what you’d need.

This doesn’t just work as an argument when we’re examining from the framework of overall game balance. We’re at a disadvantage in interrupts specifically to classes that take interrupts. This is the same thing as saying Everyone is at a disadvantage to priest because they don’t have PI and only priest does. This is not a good mode of argumentation. You don’t need to make a case about advantage/disadvantage here because it doesn’t make sense.

Blizzard is viewing interrupts as a form of utility that not every class needs - and some of the healing specs they’ve added it to require significant investment to get it. You’re not going to convince a game designer that you’re at a disadvantage when they’re considering the classes wholistically. The complaint rings hollow, because they obviously know what priest has, and they obviously know what they’re designing in terms of enccounters.

Rather than argue ‘no every class does need this, actually, because we’re at a disadvantage otherwise’ I’m saying it should be ‘no, every class should have this, because it feels bad to single a class out like this especially when other healers have gotten more utility at the same time’

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I mentioned Symbol of Hope, because I tested my priest in Holy and Shadow. Discipline, I haven’t been able to test it (because I don’t remember his rotation very well and my English isn’t the best). So I didn’t know (until I went to the beta switching to Disc), that they didn’t have the symbol… I was hoping it would be like before when the priests had a version of “Symbol of Hope” but it was for everyone (I seem to remember) . Too bad, then that’s where those who are not Holy lose a little extra utility =(

Currently it is also used in a dungeon that is Iron docks, at least for skip or so the tank can do a chain pull. But of course, it is still something interesting to see and it will be a matter of knowing how they will use it in DF. Because it may or may not be relevant, it will be a matter of seeing the routes that nwn will do

Sure, don’t take this the wrong way, I think some of the kits they’ve been handed out are pretty good, I mean… there are rarely any healers that can compare. As I mentioned, nobody has PI, Mind Soothe, etc, etc. Because they’re unique, I’m not saying they’re great and besides… I’m not in favor of Shining Force being removed or not given an interrupt. The thing was actually the drama or exaggeration they made (which is understandable because of the frustration and not everyone reacts the same), but it got to the point of saying that the class was destroyed or that other healers were stripped of their kicks among other things.

I used it in:
First pack of Theater
The pack after the first villager in Mists
The miniboss in necrotic wake
Halls of Atonement staircases when people didn’t bring invis
Tazavesh streets after miniboss, guy next to the barrier before mail room
Tazavesh Gambit the guy standing nearby the rocks fishing after the first boss, and to allow more room for certain pulls in murlocs (second one much more rare later when people pulled the dungeon more efficiently)

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Wow, I didn’t remember those uses of Mind Soothe (since I didn’t play my Hpriest until S4 started)

Guess you’re right. I played mostly in s3 so some of these were skipped with the relics of the season or people called for invisi pots.

Most common ones for me were in mist and necrotik for mini boss but otherwise I see a lot of tanks pulling the one in street and whatnot.

It’s fun to help the group skip for sure. It’s still utility that can be covered by others or consumables. So it’s fun but it doesn’t help me in combat.

Ofc all our situationnal utility is super fun and useful when the situation allows for it.

I don’t think it’s bad per say. Not at all. Just that the person who pointed this out seems to think that it makes up for the loss of shining force or something (or maybe I’m exagersting a bit :upside_down_face:)