Ghostcrawler Says Forum Critics are Wrong

[Seradi-norgannon (Seradi)]

No it didn’t. The amount of content introduced in MoP was massive.

Artifact questlines, Class Hall Campaigns, Suramar, the Illidan questline, Balance of Power, Pillars of Creation, Class mounts, WQs, Mage Tower, M+, Raids, Broken Shore, and Argus.

Suramar was IoT, Broken Shore was TI, Argus was Krasarang, M+ is a better (and repeatable) version of CMs, MoP had an extra raid to start, WQs are just dailies but they were relevant the entire expansion because of Paragon caches and legendary farming, Balance of Power/Artifact progression was basically the Legendary cloak questline, Mage Tower was an improved version of Proving Grounds with rewards that were unique to 36 classes instead of 3 roles, and MoP had the farm and that’s about equal to the mission table.

They had pretty much the same amount of content. A lot of Legion was class/spec unique and repeatable though.

[Milkshooter-twisting-nether (Milkshooter)]

That makes it really hard to have a discussion, I feel like, because people are comparing a version of a game to a memory instead of making an objective comparison.

It was a bad system then and its an even worse system now. You want an honest conversation about it that is fine by me.

The legendary system was terrible. It was an RNG system that several classes were tied to. I won’t even get into the bug that allowed lucky people to get all of them before some people found one.

The Azerite system is even worse.

I say this as someone who is well aware of the issues of the legendary system they implemented at the start of legion.

[Varrow-sargeras (Varrow)]

Now everyone’s talking about Legion like they only played 7.3 and onwards.

As awful as the Legendary system was, most everything else about Legion was pretty dang good. AP had some questionable moments early on too, but Legion was a good expansion.

There was the singular aspect of legendary acquisition that was absolutely horrid, but it was still only one part in a very large game. And yeah, once you had most (or all) of them they were a fun aspect of the game.

Even nothing in BfA was as poorly implemented as the legendary acquisition system in my opinion though.

[Blitzkareeg-area-52 (Blitzkareeg)]

We need reasonings for things. Other games give it. Any new HotS class and balance changes have videos, lots of dev notes. You see discussions for Overwatch changes and balance. Games by other developers get extensive patch notes/reasonings at times. I do not understand why the WoW team is so bad at it, and it leaves the players with no choice but to make up their own reasonings for why things are bad. And yeah people will latch onto something that maybe makes some kind of sense, or whatever they agree with.

Because there is nothing from Blizzard for them to latch onto, there’s no interaction in a vast majority of cases. It’s Blizzard popping in every now and then with “this is what we’re doing, we appreciate feedback” and then they never say anything again lol.

Preach on my friend! So true!

[anon44207803]

People are fondly remembering Legion now, but forget the outrage that followed Legendaries from 7.0 to 7.2. There were multiple threads a day with hundreds of replies with feedback about them.

Thats a selective comment, Ythisens.

None of them were about legendaries, but about the way they were obtained.

The issue with the way that the system allowed those to have one get two…then three, then four…when the rest of us had NONE comes to mind. The items themselves were fine, the godawful RNG that meant that many of us had zero for months comes to mind.

The forums are a good gauge of activity but not necessarily the “state of the game”. That’s a little more complicated.

Maybe so, what wasnt so complicated is that the essences fix had been asked for over a long time, and was not implemented until much later.

[Ythisens]

None of them were about legendaries,

You forget about the massive re-balance we did for them in 7.1 then where we redid/buffed all of the under-performing legendaries because of how punishing it was to get some of them.

Like I said earlier in the thread it wasn’t a direct comparison but an example.

[Blitzkareeg-area-52 (Blitzkareeg)]

Aweful funny that any place you go on the internet about BfA ALL have the SAME complaints about the problems with it. Hmmmmm. Strange.

I mean anywhere. You would think that if the SAME issues are being discussed around the entire net, then you would think, "Hmmmm, maybe theres something to these criticisms. But nope, we get “You dont remember the forums during every other expansion” nonsense.

Oh i remember, and even with some of their obvious faults, every other expansion outshines BfA by a mile.

Even WoD!

[Crepe-drenden (Crepe)]

Aweful funny that any place you go on the internet about BfA ALL have the SAME complaints about the problems with it. Hmmmmm. Strange.

I don’t think anyone’s trying to discount that there are issues or that people should give feedback about their issues.

But it’s not some sudden thing–these things have always happened.

Oh i remember, and even with some of their obvious faults, every other expansion outshines BfA by a mile.

I’m still of the opinion that WoD can’t stand in a direct comparison. But that’s my side of the coin. You’re welcome to yours.

[Turnberry-illidan (Turnberry)]

This is not s good example. The only people that the 4 legendary cap affected were the people spamming M+ for 8-10 hours a day. The outrage was on behalf of those players for the concealment of this issue by Blizzard because these hardcore players wasted hundreds of hours farming for something they were never going to get.

Refer to my previous post. Bad is better than terrible, but it’s still bad. I think people would prefer the 7.0 legendary system over the Azerite mess we have now.

[Metrohaha-firetree (Metrohaha)]

Sure, you are welcome to your opinion. My real point there was when that came up it was a bombshell for this game. The one group that seemingly would play no matter what was rioting, and top guilds were quitting left and right before and after Nighthold.
Now, no one even REMEMBERS that, or even brings it up.

That’s my point. That as bad or good as anything in BFA is, in the end, people will remember what they want.

Sadly, that makes it impossible to have a real discussion about it, because even when people try to be objective, they still just don’t remember things that were really bad.

[anon44207803]

You forget about the massive re-balance we did for them in 7.1 then where we redid/buffed all of the under-performing legendaries because of how punishing it was to get some of them.

I accept the correction, thank you, you are right. I do draw your attention to the last part of that sentence.

Look, Ythisens, I want to like BFA and as a measure of that confidence, advanced my sub to May next year, despite invites from friends to other games.

BUT

A lot needs fixing.

Id like to draw your attention and ask your commentary on what was said by Heels…not Im not asking you to agree but what he said was

“In BFA, if you dont raid, pvp or do m plus theres nothing for you”

I am an outer world player. Allways have been always will be. In that WORLD of Warcraft. Remember the daily caches?

Removed.

Why?

They provided a form of gearing for players who did not WANT to be funnelled into instances, it worked, it kept me engaged, I hit TEN THOUSAND WQ and I was proud of that…but that was tiered to the sheer volume of content that was provided for me.

I loved it. You removed it. Why?

Remember Margoss? Removed. The daily caches that dropped gear and mats and bloods, a small “surprise” box that was useful? Removed.

Take a look at the map. Three quarters of the map is empty of any content. Why?

I ask this as I really want a chance to get some feedback…why are we back to pushing people into instanced content?

What was wrong with Legions outside world system and rewards?

Nothing.

[Metrohaha-firetree (Metrohaha)]

If they said they would then that would be even worse for this discussion. You can NOT objectively compare the two systems and say the Azerite system is worse. The changes coming in 8.1 will make it better in every possible way, especially.

People will obviously dislike one or the other, but no one ever says that.
For real, if anyone actually said they preferred a system where you had to make new toons to try to get mandatory BIS items that you could only have 4 total of no matter how much you played then that’s a serious problem.

[anon44207803]

and top guilds were quitting left and right before and after Nighthold.

They were? News to me.

[anon44207803]

You can NOT objectively compare the two systems and say the Azerite system is worse

Yes I can. All I have to do is look at the tree for the Sceptre of Sargeras and compare it to azerite armour.

[Metrohaha-firetree (Metrohaha)]

Yes, it was very worrying for a while there.

Top End guilds quitting

https://raiders-tavern.com/exorsus-discusses-going-casual-201702/

Getting the World First on Gul’Dan comes with a prize: Exorsus is discussing their departure from hardcore raiding.

[Yesitsmyalt-arathor (Yesitsmyalt)]

See, now that’s civil. I think many people on the forums have a genuine desire to help improve things. However they fail to understand that fixing for one might break it for another. Blizzard has to balance these things, and I’m sure it takes time.

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.”
-John Lydgate

[Metrohaha-firetree (Metrohaha)]

I’m referring to Legendaries, sorry for any confusion.

[Powerbottom-zuljin]

Point being the forum works itself into a frenzy and the current xpac is always the worst xpac.

Ya, thats just patently false. You are just playing white knight for blizz, nothing to see here…

[Rainspeaker-proudmoore (Rainspeaker)]

I think the “silent majority” is so silent because they are empty seats

[Powerbottom-zuljin]

Negativity is the fluff that fills the forums. Its been like that since people were given the opportunity to scream behind a virtual character.

Nah, this empty, say nothing post is fluff that just fills the forums. Did this really look like it was worth typing out and posting?