At the end of the day its just a bunch of modifiers. Right now Frost damage has two powerful ones in Mastery and Razorice.
Razorice is effectively an exclusive DW rune and we all know what the options are here - none of them are very challenging to implement.
The second issue is that the physical damage component of Obliterate scales very poorly with existing modifiers and the fact armour eats into physical damage throughput.
The solution does not need to be hard. Simply provide an option (talent, passive, rune - whatever) unique to 2H that adds more modifiers for the physical damage side of Obliterate. It could be be an Armour debuff, or simply raw damage output etc. There might need to be some trade-offs that reduce the output from other damage sources to ensure it does not overtake DW DPS but that is core to the game anyway.
The KM proc issue is again just a numbers thing. Simply have two different values for DW and 2H and balance them as required.
So the same band-aids that were in place before and didn’t balance anything other than dragging the entire spec down.
They already made a way for obliterate to scale with mastery. 2h just does not play well into the spec and people are trying to cling onto something a few expansions old when it’s not even the same spec anymore.
In base damage? No. In other mechanics however DW just flat out wins. There is no debate to be had and it’s been the same issues for 11 years. MotFW was the answer to this difference but it just ended hurting the spec overall.
I am not interested in getting dragged into an endless debate. But nearly everything you stated was opinion based and was simply false. People can look up the data themselves online or look thew other posts where data was provided if they are interested enough.
Yes, it is out there and Shadowlands alpha is showing those mechanical differences. MotFW was introduced for 2h as a melee buff to try to bridge the gap without actually addressing the differences. In WoD the spec was not in a good place compared to other specs with some, even unholy, doing double the dps that frost did. Yes, the information is out there and it shows that I’m right.
I’m so tired of you small group of people just trying to start stuff without backing anything up.
DW is just better going into Shadowlands, and you can test weapon set base damage. Just try to get both weapon sets without mastery or versatility. Ilvl 266 was 15 damage apart, and around 430 ilvl with a difference in ilvl and some stats it was less than 200 damage difference.
Stop trying to start stuff when you are just flat out wrong.
MotFW has nothing to do with where 2H frost is now. Nor does anything in WoD. DW and 2H Frost in SL are almost identical except for a few, fixable, peripheral issues (primarily KM proc rates and runeforges). Those issues are easily fixable if Blizzard makes the time to address them before release.
Who knows, maybe Bliz will ignore those obvious and glaring issues which every 2H Frost DK has been pointing to for the last month. Maybe you’re right and Blizzard views DW as the obvious choice for DK Frost and only added an unbalanced version of 2h Frost to stop people from asking about it.
Personally, however, I feel it is much more plausible that Blizzard took the time to add 2H Frost back into the game with the intention of balancing it, as best they can, against DW Frost. Bliz likely intends for both playstyles are viable. Perhaps, given the fact that SL is still in ALPHA, Blizzard is focusing in quests/story content and will circle back to address class balance after everyone is allowed to level to max level and test end-game content. In the end, 2H Frost and DW Frost will likely perform nearly identical DPS if controlled by equally skilled players. All that, however, is just my opinion on whats going on. Who knows, I could be wrong. Maybe you’re right and 2h Frost was added back into the game by Bliz just to placate and silence their fan base.
Only time will tell, just like it did when 2H Frost was added back into the game recently.
So what’s the point of your posts other than just harassing me at this point? Did I not say that base ability damage was nearly identical and that it’s these same issues that have existed for 11 years that is causing the issues?
You basically just said I was wrong and then repeated what I said saying that you are right. What is wrong with you guys? Seriously.
Then we agree that 2H Frost and DW Frost are preforming very analogously and, with a few simple fixes, could be preforming nearly identically in the near future.
Obliterates will also be utilizing 100% frost dmg now following a KM proc. Although the damage should, in theory, be identical (in total), the numbers will look much bigger with 2H Frost.
definitely not finished yet. right now 2h does just the same or even less dmg than dw which wouldnt make much sense unless theyre going for only cosmetic which i hope not but i wouldnt be too upset.
If they had no intention of balancing 2H Frost or carving out a different build pathway for it they would have just made 2H weapons a transmog feature. The code already exists to transmog different weapon types into each-other so its obvious that wasn’t their intention because that would have been the obvious solution.
Right now on Alpha DW and 2H are not balanced as they work off exactly the same talents with DW having advantages in speed and an extra rune…Razorice is no joke when it coffers such a large increase to Frost damage (we should be able to agree on that).
If they want to have some semblance of balance or different play-style for 2H mechanically some things will need to change or be added. A total overhaul isn’t needed but its not going to work as it stands now because all the advantages go to DW.
If we want the old Obliterate style of Frost back then talents, runes and abilities (in some combination) will probably need some new direction. My argument is that they should just do all this at the same time and then sim the DPS numbers so they output a similar result. However, at this point just getting both weapon types on the same DPS page would be better than nothing - at a minimum that means resolving the rune problem and sorting the KM proc rate for 2H…even then DW might still pull ahead given the talents in the existing tree.