It’s odd how much Frost getting a weapon choice upsets you. Especially since you don’t play the spec.
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Its a self-defeating attitude too. The second 2h Frost is unviable and i feel like Bliz is blatently ignoring it, I will be done with WoW.
WoW should be doing all it can to increase its population, not further widdle down the player base to a few people who feel the game has to be played in a very specific way. WoW was most popular when the game allowed to most choice and began collapsing in on itself when Bliz started doubling down on the mindset that certain specs needed to be played in a very specific way. Let the player base tell Bliz whats fun/how a class/spec should be played. WoW classics popularity should be screaming that.
If there is a strong following for both 2h and DW Frost, Bliz should deaign the class so that both are viable - not 100% equal, but viable.
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They should simply remove dual wielding frost in order to balance it. It’s like demon hunters using a 2hander - shouldn’t even be an option.
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You almost got me!
But then I realized someone who treats other people this way doesn’t have a group to play with.
I hope you figure it out for SL though! This game is definitely better with others.
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I would play it if wasnt mongo 2 buttom spec.
Seeing how you clearly hate Frost spec in general, why are you even bothering posting on the subject? 
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Again instead of asking for frost to be better and feel good to play and not mongo spec you asked for a silly comestic option so congratulations you did it!!!
I personally like Frost spec. It has its flaws, but I like the thematics. Unfortunately, I cannot enjoy the spec at all if its DW. So, that is why I want 2h Frost back. Asking for 2H frost does not preclude Bliz from improving the spec generally.
Also, you might have better conversations with others if you refrain from initiating conversation in such an adversarial tone.
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Again you enjoy and play a class for a silly cosmetic option so doesnt matter if it play well or not so move on about balancing it.
Having KM proc off of crit is when it got worse, the proc gives you what you are already getting so its only real purpose is a complete crit with DW instead of half crits, Murderous Efficiency and guaranteed Frostscythe crits which you dont even worry about in aoe since its most likely going to crit on at least 1 mob.
Its like having Hot Streak just give pyro a guaranteed crit instead of an instant cast. You already have to crit enough to get the proc, and then it just gives you another crit, its dumb design.
They had to do something else with it or just remove it entirely.
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I play a game to have fun, and its not a zero sum game. Bringing 2H back in no way prevents them from balancing Frost as a spec.
I don’t get that line of reasoning.
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There are more than just two people that want it back. I have seen a lot of dks calling for that and for blood to get dw and for blood to be dps and tank spec. So your angry post doesn’t effect me at all.
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Fair enough. Obliteration, despite being my thematic favorite, has always been wonky design wise. I still think making Icy Citadel baseline would be a huge favor to Frost as a whole considering how much power it represents despite being borrowed.
There are still lots of problems with the 50 talent tree anyways. Breathe scales off Mastery and Crit, where as Icecap scales only off Crit and Obliteration now only scales off Mastery. That and things like ERW and now Hypothermic, Revendreth, and Hysteria are so geared towards Breathe those buttons/rune feel so much weaker without it. And this is just the 50 options. Don’t even get started on thing like Inexorable and Glacial Advance.
I’m wondering if basing parts of Obliteration off Gargoyle would work? Spending the RP increases either Haste of Mastery? Or would that be overboard or simply boring?
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I think he was one of the unholy that did not want 2h to return as people were wanting to have dw removed from frost and put into unholy.
Haste is also good for Icecap and obliteration due to the rune system. More chances to crit and more crit allows for pillar to be back more often. Obliteration with haste too, more resources, lower gcd means it flows better and you can fit more into the window. Breath is just too good and bot a buff in how it works and is really confusing. Instead of 100% damage on main target and 30% to secondaries, it now does something king of strange with square roots and stuff to calculate the % on each target or something. So 2 targets it does 100% main target 72% on the second target and so on. It’s confusing.
Not everything has to be interesting either. There are some variables that we don’t have like the str stacking of the night fae covenant ability and how well that might play into Icecap/obliteration builds, tier sets, legendaries. We know these things are coming, it’s just the value of str that we don’t know. For all we know it could just be a broken amount that makes these other options a viable choice.
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Once again a lot of that is very true. But I feel the stuff we’re missing goes both ways. Soulbinds for instance are meant to power up our Covenant abilities, so in theory things like Revendreath are only going to get more powerful overtime, same goes for something like the Nightfae, on top of legendaries being tied to Covenants too. I think a lot of people are also forgetting the removal of things like Titanforging and how much that can factor in. We’re going to be getting actual realistic BIS gear again, so simming is gonna be more efficient, along with build theroy crafting, etc. So maybe BIS gear for Breathe will be different than BIS gear for Oblit/Icecap, it won’t be generic “stack x stat with the highest ilvl”.
I’m cautiously optimistic about Shadowlands, baring obvious glaring things like 2h, but at this point what more is there to be said and argued about there. The feedback has been given only time will tell if anything will change. I just hope Maldraxxus doesn’t suck. Frost has been feeling way too lacking in the “Death” department since Legion and while Ghoul and Frostwyrm help with that, nothing would help more than being part of the covenant made up of literal Liches and still being able to Pug.
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I agree with everything you’ve said here. I said early on that two rune forges on a 2H would be a simple solution in regards to balancing 2H vs DW.
It’s still early Alpha so I have high hopes that many of these issues will be addressed before Shadowlands launch…
Just the fact that 2H has retuned is a big win, Blizzard is not blind to the other issues. I feel like it’s only a matter of time before we see them addressed. 
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Simple answer: KM procs with a 2-hander give you 3 stacks of the buff (dual-wielding auto-attacks slightly less than 3x as quickly). Problem solved.
When using a 2-hander, runeforge effects are simply twice as strong (or some multiple, double strength may not quite be the right number. I suspect Fallen Crusader + Razorice is stronger than a double-strength version of either one alone).
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Why doesnt anyone ever want to future proof the spec, they just want to band aid something until it works and then it either has to be buffed, or removed and something else added. Just fix the issues, its been going on for 11 years. If they dont want to fix the issues and the spec is brought down because people think “just pump more damage into 2h” then the spec is going to just start to fall behind again.
These band aids arent doing anything but pushing back things that should be looked at now. Blizzard has known about these issues for 11 years for crying out loud and their answer was MotFW and it just didnt work, it screwed up aspects of the spec or just didnt solve the pre-existing issues.
There is already enough that they have to fix in the spec itself right now that no one might see anything with 2h for a while. Everyone that plays it on alpha says the same thing “its frost, and 2h is kind of just there”.
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That can cause a whole slew of problems, not just balance wise but rotational as well. It’d be a nightmare in PVP. From the number’s I’ve seen at current a 2h frost KM Obliterate is about 1.8k and thats with only the quick create gear and stats. 3 of those is 5.4k and the health values we have for mages puts them at only 9k, you’re halfing a class that’s had his mobility gutted. Not even mentioning the fact that Obliteration combined with Murderous Efficiency creates a nearly endless supply of those KM procs, and the fact Pillar is still on a 45 sec cooldown with 15 secs of up timing, meaning you could do that every 30 secs to someone. That’s only getting into the balance portion, it’d be nightmare to have to squeeze in so many KM procs after one another while not capping on RP, while not stacking Rime procs, etc.
Everyone has given the feedback on 2h. We can theory craft, argue and disagree till cows come home, but at this point seeing all that I’d rather focus on addressing the actual issues facing DK’s as a whole. Like DnD being literally useless outside the one niche situation of unstealthing a rogue and the Night Fae covenant, like talents such as Glacial Advance being dead for 2 whole expansions, like Breathe being the thing constantly pushed (I say this as someone who actually likes Breathe). There’s a ton wrong with Frost outside of 2h, Blizz more than likely knows how bad 2h is, so I’d rather focus on letting them know how bad everything else is.
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