Thays what I’m saying. There is no point to have a talent only affect one or the other.
I doubt a new obl talent will come since it now scales off of our mastery on km procs. Which depending on armor is 20+30 percent more damage plus the mastery on top of it.
Then frankly speaking the people who want them to be equal are ridiculous. They aren’t going to be. Nothing in this game ever usual ends up being. The fact Unholy and Frost are as close as they are at current is honestly astounding in that aspect.
DW doesn’t have to be nerfed, period. “Chilling Dexterity - When equipped with a two hander, your auto attack speed is increased by x (whatever to match it to DW) percentage)”, Killing Machine solved. “Rune of the Frozen Crusader” a single rune that combines Fallen Crusader and Razorice. Razorice problem solved. “But people don’t want that, they want a slow 2h”, well they can’t have it both ways. They can’t expect a balanced alternative without matching it as closely to the current base design as possible. These two options are even easier than nerfing DW as it doesn’t lead to the miriade of new problems a total change of how the core design of Frost would work. You haven’t been arguing from a point of “what people want” otherwise you’d just them yell “MotFW” over and over again and let them be inefficent. We’re arguing about what’s possible. Both of the above are possible. You don’t NEED to nerf DW to bring 2h in line. How are the above changes impossible in that case?
So fair enough, my math might be off in some regards. But there is still no reason to believe they can’t individual adjust the equations of Obliterate/Frost Strike for DW and 2h, that’s been the crux of the point. Picking apart the math isn’t even all that necessary considering the Numbers from alpha show’s that 2h and DW (in terms of singular damage numbers from things like Obliterate and Frost Strike), are close. So, people want big 2h Obliterates, buff up the 2h Obliterate side of the equation. KM procs not equal yet? New version of MotFW, flat buff to crit chance to 2h autos, maybe every auto crits now if the disparity is that bad. What reason is there to believe that changes like this can’t be done?
Ok.
So armor is a massive issue for Obliterates for 2h’s? Ok, new rune, small attack speed buff, crit buff, and a small percentage of armor penetration, exclusive to a 2h. What the numbers would be dependent on what would be tested. But there we go.
100% auto attack crit chance is a band aid? Even with a 100% chance to proc Killing Machine on every auto? Even making it a 9/10 roll?
The point you’ve been constantly insisting is one of “DW has to be nerfed, there are no other options”. This isn’t true. The argument of “people don’t want that” doesn’t change that. People can’t have all they want, just as you’ve previously told people they can’t have they’re big 2h Obliterates and end up equal to DW, which is true. Unless previous suggestions are prove literally (the actual definition) impossible, the insisting of DW being nerfed being the absolute is pointless.
Is it hard to just lift weapon restrictions? That is not something that someone has to work through, it was literally 3-4 spells that needed to be changed. That is also not saying it’s not coming back or that I don’t think it should.
So your solution is to do things that people don’t want to do. It’s funny how many different band aids that you need to do to 2h just to make it a little better than it is now on alpha. While on the other hand you have a nerf to DW, where it can only proc off of the main hand but then increasing the ppm to compensate which would result in a more level playing field instead of just being half as good. What you propose while saying “well it’s better” is like increasing the amount to 25 per 12 minutes instead of 22 and saying “well it’s better, and it’s never going to be balanced”.
And yes armor would be a big deal for 2h obliterate because you don’t have as many chances to get km which will make obliterate frost damage which bypasses armor.
And yes, it is the only way to balance them is to nerf DW. What’s easier, to limit DW to main hand attacks and give 2h Razorice as well, or to do what you propose with all these unnecessary band aids to fix something that is simple? I mean what are you even arguing about at this point?
The only way to balance them isn’t to nerf DW. Slap a passive on 2h and make it attack as fast as DW done. Slap FC and Razorice together into one rune and make it 2h only. Done. Are these nerfs to DW?
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Nope, need to nerf DW and then increase the ppm so its all close to the level we have now. Or do you not understand that people don’t want a fast attack speed, yet you keep bringing it up just to argue?
We aren’t talking about what people want. We’re talking about what’s possible.
You are, I’m talking about what’s best.
Your opinion does not equal a fact. Also, other peoples opinions/tastes hold value as well.
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It is a fact, not opinion.
You’re saying taking existing passives like how Icy Talons works, taking two existing enchants both of which are already coded perfectly, smacking them together and pulling out a name, is a worse and/or harder solution than applying a nerf, changing the core design of how the class works, and then rebuffing around this new mechanically functionality.
Why?
So you rather give people that want to play 2h an attack speed steroid where they would have to attack at a baseline once every 1.3 seconds who don’t want that? Unlike you I’m actually taking into consideration of other people’s wants.
We’re not talking about what people want, we’re talking about what’s best.
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Hes presenting a possible way of directly addressing the issue at hand, rather than just telling everyone else their ideas are impossible.
What are your suggestions? I would love to hear them.
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Also, if you were really taking into consideration of people’s wants, you would just let them keep shouting “make 2h Obliterates really big and let 2h’s use 2 runes”, but you’re not doing that. You’re shutting down any idea of such buffs existing. If people want to have big 2h Obliterates but at the end of the day are going to be wrong in assuming that fixes all their problem’s, why aren’t you letting them?
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So your moving the goal posts? Is it what’s possible or what’s best? What is best is nerfing DW to then increase the overall ppm. Less to mess with.
You said you weren’t talking about what’s possible just what’s best. Ok, let’s talk about this on you terms. What about my proposed changed compared to yours is inefficient or overall worse.
Wow, are you just going to argue to argue? Listen, you can take what people want into consideration if it isn’t a detriment to the spec or game, like being able to apply 2 runes is an enchanting system change which most likely will have an impact on all 2h weapons and not just frost. Making huge obliterates is also splitting the spec which was a detriment to the spec since it had to be balanced against itself as well as other specs.
This is really basic stuff here.
I’ve already told you, I’m not repeating myself yet again.
One 2h specific rune which equals RI+FC would be fine. I think a large number of people in the community have supported that.