I think she has this I don’t want it so you can’t have it like mentality when it comes to 2h frost.
And i love paladins and dks. I am looking at being an off tank for my guild. But prot having holy power is just…why i hate holy power for paladins. And that conversation is as toxic. I also miss seals for paladins. I love how it nade judgment interactive thats abother toxic subject.
Being told that someone had mained a paladin for 12 years and thaf if seals are brought back they would leave paladins and that my opinion doesn’t count yea…
Yes, people do want them equal, but at the moment they aren’t even close. And yes, it’s doing nothing, just like putting a band aid severed limb, it’s doing things half way which if you are going to do things half way it’s as good as not doing it at all and you will constantly be doing catch up.
Do it right the first time and you don’t have to worry about it anymore. Going from 4 times less to half as much is still a huge gap. If you want it balanced then DW has to be nerfed and the ppm increased to compensate. Funny how the people you said don’t want it to be perfectly balanced actually agree with me on this point. Doing even double km procs means that it gets the full 120% frost damage component more often increased by 15% before mastery.
Lets see if this 80% thing is true. DW strength for 440ilvl weapons 548, 2h str 549… 99.99% equal compared to this 80% figure you stated. DW crit is 136 compared to 167 for 2h, a bigger difference but it’s not even a big enough difference to equal 1% crit over DW since it’s basically 72 crit rating per 1%. Haste result is the same. Weapon dps is actually higher than 2h however for DW. Since DW offhand is 50% of the main hand, DW results in 467.25 weapon dps over the 412.8 for 2h. DW also misses with the offhand yet it still results in having a massive gap in km procs.
I answered you, twice on this covenant thing and now you are saying you are locked in in one scenario, while the other scenario is different. Of course then, you have to look at the scenario and not being able to swap at all is just flat out bad. But that’s not the scenario covenants are in is it? Imbalance is imbalance even if you shift it around.
I don’t care if you don’t want it to be equal, other people do and to eliminate people saying “no 2h frost death knights” you have to get them as close as possible.
I have already answered the increase in obliterate damage armor reducing physical damage as well as DW having 4 times as many km procs changing obliterate to frost damage. Even increasing obliterate by 40% through whatever means is not enough to bring them in line nor is increasing the crit chance of 2h autos. Band aids on top of band aids on top of band aids is not a solution.
Liar, I did not say it wasn’t coming back nor did I say that it shouldn’t. You are just taking other people’s words on it just because you guys are on “the same side”. The only thing I said about it that it shouldn’t come back if it results in a split in the spec.
I was also always saying what the issue was if you just lifted weapon restrictions so you are lying yet again. I also said that 2h was better in highmaul just like other people did that the 2h community was against and constantly attacked. What I actually said was that DW was better other than a few instances.
You seriously need to quit lying and talking about things that you weren’t even a part of. The reason I rub people the wrong way is because liars like you get under my skin and I call it out as I see it. That’s also not even the dunning-Kruger effect. The dunning-Kruger is overestimating their ability at a task, like screwing in a light bulb but they turn it the wrong way.
How can anyone take you seriously at this point? You have got to be trolling at this point.
Oh so that’s why I say that DW has to be nerfed for it to be balanced… riiight. If DW is nerfed and the ppm increased to compensate for it, how is that saying I don’t want 2h so you can’t have it?
I just don’t know why Blizzard would nerf an intended mechanic that has been that way for 11 years. If they want it to be balanced then it has to be done. It wouldn’t be perfect, but it would be the best course of action.
Sadly, 2h frost will never be like it was.
They would need to basically make 2 different play styles. With things being AP based, 2h obliterates will be basically the same number as dw. I just pray they find a way to balance the two so dw isn’t far superior.
1 Like
So again you say you didn’t say something and we find where you have said it.
7 Likes
Why? Just add a viable talent to the final tier which buffs Oblits, so that they are a larger portion of your overall DPS. Would be fantastic to have a viable alternative to BoS anyway.
2 Likes
If that talent is added, would it not affect dw as well? Adding a talent that only affects dw or 2h will never happen since it makes it an obsolete choice for the other. The big obliterates will come because it scales off mastery with km procs at max level in SL.
They aren’t going to design two different specs of frost, 1 for dw and 1 for 2h. The way the game is going, itll never happen. What I think they will do is have both specs gameplay similar in terms of how it plays. But the damage will not be like how things were before in wrath since it is all ap based.
I’m a big advocate for 2h frost coming back. I hate dw dks. But it wont be the 2h frost like it was before. Itll be a new kind of frost. The scaling with km procs in sl is going to be fun, but that damage will be the same for dw or 2h. Only difference is one big number vs 2 smaller ones.
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Why does it ONLY have to impact DW or 2H. That’s a false choice. Give FROST SPEC the option to spec into BOS for a more DoT/consistent DPS build OR and improved Obliteration talent which provides a more Obliterate centrist build.
Respectfully, I seriously don’t understand why every balancing debate had to turn into a X will impact Y weapon set unfairly…
Balance DW and 2H so that runeforges and KM procs are equal, then make sure the talents provide either weapon set the opportunity to be a BOS/DoT build OR a bursty Obliterate build. This reality would mean everyone wins.
4 Likes
Thays what I’m saying. There is no point to have a talent only affect one or the other.
I doubt a new obl talent will come since it now scales off of our mastery on km procs. Which depending on armor is 20+30 percent more damage plus the mastery on top of it.
Then frankly speaking the people who want them to be equal are ridiculous. They aren’t going to be. Nothing in this game ever usual ends up being. The fact Unholy and Frost are as close as they are at current is honestly astounding in that aspect.
DW doesn’t have to be nerfed, period. “Chilling Dexterity - When equipped with a two hander, your auto attack speed is increased by x (whatever to match it to DW) percentage)”, Killing Machine solved. “Rune of the Frozen Crusader” a single rune that combines Fallen Crusader and Razorice. Razorice problem solved. “But people don’t want that, they want a slow 2h”, well they can’t have it both ways. They can’t expect a balanced alternative without matching it as closely to the current base design as possible. These two options are even easier than nerfing DW as it doesn’t lead to the miriade of new problems a total change of how the core design of Frost would work. You haven’t been arguing from a point of “what people want” otherwise you’d just them yell “MotFW” over and over again and let them be inefficent. We’re arguing about what’s possible. Both of the above are possible. You don’t NEED to nerf DW to bring 2h in line. How are the above changes impossible in that case?
So fair enough, my math might be off in some regards. But there is still no reason to believe they can’t individual adjust the equations of Obliterate/Frost Strike for DW and 2h, that’s been the crux of the point. Picking apart the math isn’t even all that necessary considering the Numbers from alpha show’s that 2h and DW (in terms of singular damage numbers from things like Obliterate and Frost Strike), are close. So, people want big 2h Obliterates, buff up the 2h Obliterate side of the equation. KM procs not equal yet? New version of MotFW, flat buff to crit chance to 2h autos, maybe every auto crits now if the disparity is that bad. What reason is there to believe that changes like this can’t be done?
Ok.
So armor is a massive issue for Obliterates for 2h’s? Ok, new rune, small attack speed buff, crit buff, and a small percentage of armor penetration, exclusive to a 2h. What the numbers would be dependent on what would be tested. But there we go.
100% auto attack crit chance is a band aid? Even with a 100% chance to proc Killing Machine on every auto? Even making it a 9/10 roll?
The point you’ve been constantly insisting is one of “DW has to be nerfed, there are no other options”. This isn’t true. The argument of “people don’t want that” doesn’t change that. People can’t have all they want, just as you’ve previously told people they can’t have they’re big 2h Obliterates and end up equal to DW, which is true. Unless previous suggestions are prove literally (the actual definition) impossible, the insisting of DW being nerfed being the absolute is pointless.
Is it hard to just lift weapon restrictions? That is not something that someone has to work through, it was literally 3-4 spells that needed to be changed. That is also not saying it’s not coming back or that I don’t think it should.
So your solution is to do things that people don’t want to do. It’s funny how many different band aids that you need to do to 2h just to make it a little better than it is now on alpha. While on the other hand you have a nerf to DW, where it can only proc off of the main hand but then increasing the ppm to compensate which would result in a more level playing field instead of just being half as good. What you propose while saying “well it’s better” is like increasing the amount to 25 per 12 minutes instead of 22 and saying “well it’s better, and it’s never going to be balanced”.
And yes armor would be a big deal for 2h obliterate because you don’t have as many chances to get km which will make obliterate frost damage which bypasses armor.
And yes, it is the only way to balance them is to nerf DW. What’s easier, to limit DW to main hand attacks and give 2h Razorice as well, or to do what you propose with all these unnecessary band aids to fix something that is simple? I mean what are you even arguing about at this point?
The only way to balance them isn’t to nerf DW. Slap a passive on 2h and make it attack as fast as DW done. Slap FC and Razorice together into one rune and make it 2h only. Done. Are these nerfs to DW?
4 Likes
Nope, need to nerf DW and then increase the ppm so its all close to the level we have now. Or do you not understand that people don’t want a fast attack speed, yet you keep bringing it up just to argue?
We aren’t talking about what people want. We’re talking about what’s possible.
You are, I’m talking about what’s best.
Your opinion does not equal a fact. Also, other peoples opinions/tastes hold value as well.
2 Likes
It is a fact, not opinion.
You’re saying taking existing passives like how Icy Talons works, taking two existing enchants both of which are already coded perfectly, smacking them together and pulling out a name, is a worse and/or harder solution than applying a nerf, changing the core design of how the class works, and then rebuffing around this new mechanically functionality.
Why?