By telling people they shouldn’t want something, ensuring complaints. Not very sound logic is it?
Why do you care if people complain so much? I’m being real, I respect you as a poster but how others feel about something really doesn’t affect you or I. As long as adding 2h back to the game didn’t mess up dw I don’t see a drawback to adding 2h back.
One thing I loath about video game forums is posts like yours which center around fear mongering. Not you as a poster, but this sort of false feeling ‘concern’ for others. It doesn’t come off as genuine and it’s a little sad given the context of the conversation. Time to course correct in this thread. If you have a legit issue with 2h (I think you do, affecting dw performance) then best just be up front.
So then there are actual problems from a DPS standpoint. You can use a 2h right now just not to a point that its worth it or even good.
So where is the line? Some people its at transmog, after that they dont care because they have the look. Shouldnt you strive to try to do it the best way possible without actually screwing the spec up, other weapon sets, and without having 2h be behind?
see? what about you drop the facade that you are not against 2H? every time you try to put mud on it lmao
yes its blizzard problem not yours, so how about you do not talk like you are a blizzard worker?
again, you are not blizzard, the issue is not your concern
the “issue” already exist in a regular basis with suboptimal specs, classes and talents, why they can’t have the issue of 2 playstyles too?
correction, if we don’t care about dps, bringing back 2H will already resolve it, cause we don’t care about the dps
why DO YOU care, if other complain? are you afraid they make 2H better than DW if they complain? is that your problem?
but this don’t happen, why are you not asking blizzard to remove other talents and specs and let then use just the optimal ones:?
the game being better overall is add another playstyle, the 2H, if its a dps loss then with high content i put a DW that i had in my bag, just like i change some talents when i raid
If people are complaining so much then the game is not in a good state, when you minimize the amount of complaints when there is a good amount of people playing the game, then the game is in at least a better state. Its not a matter of 2h and DW, I really dont know why you guys cant grasp that.
Why do you think its a false concern? Its not even fear mongering to try to keep it away. Its entirely, if you are going to do it, then do it right. Thats it. You wouldnt install a sink without connecting the drain right?
No, its not about DW performance, I really dont know where you guys even get that other than I dont follow your ideas. Its this “if you arent with me you are against me” type of mentality that just needs to go.
No, but by this logic WoW would have shut down mid MoP with the old talent trees going by-by. To put a finer point on it, Frost as a spec wouldn’t have actually been released until the numerous issues with the spec on BFA launch were ironed out. The company didn’t care enough to fix the issues with the spec over the better course of a year with Beta. Not sure why they should care about this.
Because you’re speaking on behalf of ‘others’ which always comes off as not genuine in these sorts of discussions. People are complaining either way so the whole ‘I want to avoid complaints’ isn’t really valid. Not since WoD have I seen as much complaining about the game in its entirety. See where I’m going?
That’s not what I’m saying; I’m saying you aren’t really expressing a legitimate reason for 2h not to come back. Because you’re worried about how people feel or worried that they may enjoy a ‘trap’ spec isn’t really valid, they don’t affect anyone except the people that choose to play that way.
Different story if BOTH specs are garbage for 2h coming back, which would be a lot more legit of a reason to oppose it.
Its not Blizzard problem either. Frost works and its performing well. Thats really all they care about. I also said its Blizzards game, big difference there. You also clearly dont understand the entire point in saying “Its not your problem if 2h doesnt come back” its to point out how dumb of an argument it is that people were saying the dps issue isnt my problem. Which there is really no way you can say that since it could be. What if 1h weapons are scarce like it was back in cata forcing me to get a 2h weapon? Again, its not the weapon thats the issue, its the dps loss.
You also have access to 2h weapons. You can go out there and play like the LK all day and night if you want to.
I really dont understand why you guys are so fixated on this 2h vs DW bandwagon. Its like you just want to make it a 2h vs DW issue when its not.
What doesnt happen? That drain soul was actually a dps loss over no talents at all? Yes that actually happened the majority of this expansion.
You do not need to add another playstyle to bring back 2h.
I also find it hilarious that I have been saying missing 15% frost damage and the majority of people just ignore it and go on some rant about 2h vs DW and how I am what you think I am.
then if they put 2H its not problem since its blizzard game
dumb is to think DPS loss will matter with the playstyle when there is several people who don’t care about dpss loss and play with bad specs and bad talents who make then loss dps
ah yes, its all coming together
you are afraid of 2H coming back, you are afraid it will be better than DW, this is your whole problem.
and just to answer, if “1h are scarce” you will still find problems getting 1H regardless, you will not even have a 2H to back up while you find a 1H, its will be worse.
no you can’t, and stop lying like that, i can’t obliterate with 2H
you are making the issue, you don’t want 2H to come back because you are afraid of 2H being better than DW
Why would WoW have shut down with the talent tree change and how is that relevant to what you quoted? Sorry but I just dont see the connection.
Its not even speaking on the behalf of others, its recognizing a problem that everyone knows would be a problem and saying that problem should be fixed as well. If people are complaining anyways then why bring back 2h? If others are going to be ignored then why are the people for 2h so important?
Yes BFA for the majority is a bad expansion, has nothing to do with 2h. Not having 2h frost didnt drive frost players away since there were many frost players in Legion. Its everything combined and 2h activists are an extreme minority in that entire sea of people.
Im not expressing that 2h shouldnt come back either. I really dont know where you guys get it other than the “if you arent with me you must be against me” type of mentality.
Why is the argument automatically “you dont want 2h to return” when I said if it did return then there is 15% frost damage missing. Why doesnt it go to trying to fix that issue? Its like if I said “if you put a power powerful engine in your car you will need to upgrade your suspension and braking system” and then the person saying “why do you not want me to get a more powerful engine”. Its not even remotely close to being the same.
Because of how poorly it was done and has gone. I was making a joke, the point is that your example and a video game are two different things. Blizzard are clearly OK with releasing broken content/classes.
Why not?
Which I pointed out in my very first post in this thread.
Because you shifted your posts from talking about the damage loss (which was actually interesting and good for the discussion) to this one about people complaining.
Never said it did, what I was getting at was if complaints actually bothered you that much you may not visit these forums very often. Especially lately with all the milarky going on with class design,gear, rental power systems etc.
Not my argument, not what I’m saying about you. Your ‘concerns’ about people complaining don’t seem genuine. I’m attacking that specific argument.
So what you’re worried about is the team scaling back 1h strength weps because 2h would be in game? I don’t think they’d do that, even though we’re the only dps class that can use strength based one handers.
Apparently there’s not considering I just tried using one that’s 425 item level and sustained 20k DPS single target and 40k on three targets. What’s your DPS again? What was Blizzard talking about again?
Your question is a statement: It causes you no issue now, so it is not your problem.
If this is your statement (and it is implied to be so) then it applies also to you, if we get Two Handers back. Dual wield isn’t changed by the reintegration of two handed weapons. You have nothing to complain about if you intend to remain a dual wielder.
So, clearly, you just hate the idea of us having the weapons we were advertised as using (even in Blizzcon 2019.)
Not simply a DPS point - your actually essentially removing parts of the class. You yourself have been adamant about Dual wields superiority; so you were hopefully well aware of the abilities that cannot be used (at all) in Frosts current state with a 2 handed weapon. Your argument appears in bad faith because you already knew the answer to your question before you asked it - but you appear to try to re-frame the answer because it can be used to support your initial response but only if you remove the additional context (the “AND”) I gave you a answer for the sake of completeness - but you have ignored that “you can use 2h right now just not to a point where it is worth it or even good.” Because your aware that 2h cannot be used with a significant portion of the class at all. It is like arguing that warriors have a 1-handed prot spec - they simply do not need to equip a shield…it just means you will be a bad tank; same for prot paladins and single 2 hander Fury warriors. I would say the “line” is what the requester is asking for - I have too much respect for you to assume you needed that to be clairified as it would move away from what is being asked; so like any request do we need to submit a form letter? I understand you do not want 2 handed to return - you have made that clear. I will clarify what I would like.
2 Handed weapons to be usable by Frost Death knights with any abilities they would be able to use with dual wield. I make no request for any special “adjustments” I do not require a rework of rune-forging or some special talent to be created - if by chance the introduction of 2 handed frost somehow turns out to be at some point a massive DPS increase - that fine too; if not well that is also fine.
“Mechanically speaking - I want the weapon requirements on my class abilities to be removed - thats all/ thats it.”
And yes I realize some folks might say “but big obliterates” and the reason that is a no is obvious enough - because of how the class features work. You cannot please everyone - but what is being ask by me and others (not all) is that the devs reconsider a change they made - nothing more. In the future if devs want to try and balance it - thats on them; but since I doubt DKs will be #1 sim again anytime soon I will just accept wherever the charts put me.
someones always got to be last - the change I suggest should in no way harm Dual wielders who can continue to be happy.
Whats my dps? Why does that matter? Are you just trying to attempt to character smear again? You know that failure of an argument when you dont have an actual argument?
You’ve been talking about DPS for the past 5 hours, and seem to know a lot about how badly 2H would perform based on “mathematics” and “knowledge”, so what’s your DPS with DW? What about 2H? You made a post about being able to use 2H asking me what the problem was, which was a mockery of the discussion, but I tried it anyway. My single target DPS was 20k. My three-target AoE DPS was 40K sustained. With a 2H. Meaning I didn’t have Obliterate or Frost Strike. My issue with you here, though, is that I don’t believe you ever even pulled 20k DPS but you keep talking about DPS like you designed the class.