The easiest way to get 2h frost back, the simplest for Blizzard, would be to lift the restrictions for the abilities and a new 2h runeforge that combines razorice and fallen crusader. This would make the two roughly equal, and blizz can nerf or adjust 2h through the new runeforge if it over or under performs.
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Several people have mentioned that Blizz should allow 2H Frost to use two runeforges on one weapon. I think this presents two different questions:
- Should Blizz re-visit the current one-echantment-per-weapon paradigm, and consider allowing other specs to use two per weapon?
- Should 2H Frost be considered a special case, and be granted an exception to the current one-enchantment-per-weapon rule?
I havenât seen a compelling case for âyesâ to either of these.
Allowing 2H Frost (if it even comes back at all) to have two runeforges will likely cause players of other specs to demand two enchantments per weapon also. You can answer that you donât care, but the real issue is whether Blizz would care.
Why doesnât Blood get two? I would love to have both FC and SG. (On the other hand, this becomes less of an issue if they un-pruned/un-nerfed other abilities.)
I think Raziael makes a good point that some sort of buffs internal to the individual abilities could fix the DPS disparity between 2H and DW without opening up the how-many-enchants-per-weapon can of worms.
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I think just making new rune forges instead can help with that if 2h Frost comes back. The devs can try experimenting with whatever they come up with before giving them to the players. Besides, just the three same old runes has gotten kinda boring honestly.
By Hermaeus Mora, the temptation here is beyond compelling.
What people choose to do in their game is their business, not yours. If someone wants to 2H and gets penalized for it, that has nothing to do with you. And why did any of these things even come up? You dual-wield anyway.
6 Likes
Expanding a bit people pugging M+ already try to stick to whatever the meta at the moment is, which leaves entire classes out(1). People doing premades with friends can and do succeed with whatever the heck build they want.
(1) Though even if Blizzard is finding it hard to balance warlocks at the moment I donât really see people trying to get them deleted from the game.
1 Like
Its not an assumption, its based off of math. If you do 15% less frost damage, and the spec is balanced around having it as well as a str buff, you will be at a disadvantage and people will complain about it. Like you said people complain, so its not an assumption.
So many assumptions in your post though. The only thing the complaints on the forums would do is allow me to say âI told you soâ.
Clearly you guys dont understand the argument presented. Its not going to solve anything. I mean people are just complaining about a weapon choice, imagine being so far behind DW people dont want to bother with people running a 2h build that is going to be inferior. Have you guys not played WoW before and seen the community? Even in guilds they want you to play what is beta/the best unless you overly outgear it so it doesnt matter which why run that content at that point other than to just do it, or people dont know better.
Man you need better friends then. Iâve never even once had that problem.
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The other question is, can they even do it per class or is it based on weapons. In GW2 for example, its entirely based on the weapon and I think for a long time 2h weapons, Greatswords, Hammers, Staves, Longbows ect. all had one âenchantâ slot while say axe/axe warrior had 2. Later they made it so that 2h weapons had 2 slots but it was entirely based on weapons.
Thats the problem with saying 2 enchant clots for 2h frost, it could open up 2 enchants per 2h weapon for everyone and that would mean 4 enchants for fury. Its almost like people dont think past their own class/want.
Thats why the combined runeforge would be the best option. I would think it wouldnt require that much work.
They have also already tried doing that. Making 2h do more melee damage in cata (obliterate, frost strike, autos ect) and it was still 10% behind. They tried splitting focus and it didnt work either and brought the spec down as a whole.
You can test it right now, get a 2h weapon and 2 1h weapons without versa and mastery on them and check the difference between the 2 damage values. Of course you cant use most of the abilities, but its almost non-existent so there wouldnt even have to be numbers tweaks. It really does just need to have access to razorice as well like DW does and it will be close enough for no complaints.
Its just the overall WoW community. Its been like that since wrath when they wanted gearscore and achievements and inspected you and so on. People dont like to be brought down by others when they are trying to accomplish something and people will usually remove the weak link if there are troubles.
That doesnât have anything to do with running content with friends. I already mentioned that pugs will try to stick with meta, thatâs why I generally avoid pugs for anything you canât queue for.
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The argument I presented is that this is not your concern in the first place. Again, you can dual-wield. Donât worry about what weâre doing or how weâre doing. If we want to do what we want to do at the possible cost of damage, thatâs our business.
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its hard to actually find those numbers in a dead forum, however, 200 still is a decent number in dead forums
lmao
you are ironic arenât you? you did evne deflect the entire post so say nonsense if people will complain or not
its not your problem
your guild want you to play something in their loook for raid runs? wow tht would be harsh
and again, this is not your damn problem what people do, if people play bad specs/classes talents they can play âbadâ playstyles and pick the âless dpsâ option in 2h.
once again you are just proving you are against 2H, always burying in with some crap excuse that donât matter to people
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Its not your problem if 2h doesnt come back because its Blizzards game.
The difference between you and me, is that I can actually notice an issue that would arise out of just lifting weapon restrictions which just shifts the complaints.
And if you guys really dont care about dps output then transmog is a perfectly fine solution to bring back 2h even if you dont like that solution. Its almost like you want it your way and no other way. You dont care if others will start complaining because their weapon choice leads to a self nerf and it shouldnt be that way in their view. Just like drain soul shouldnt be a dps loss when you pick up that talent. It should be equal to or give a dps increase over no talent at all but it doesnt.
I really dont get how its so hard to understand unless you just dont care about anything else than what you want, which is not good when trying to make a better game overall.
Then why arent you using a 2h right now? You can equip it and go out and fight stuff, so its not a problem⌠right?
Yes, it is.
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Is it? How? Because you see it as a problem? Just how I see it as a problem if it does return without trying to balance it to minimize future complaints?
You guys might just care about yourselves, at least I care to actually try to prevent future complaints.
Because Death Knight was advertised to me as a two handed class. Because I want it. Are you saying that what pugs will take us is your problem because your desire is for us to never have two handers again, and thus us having them causes you pain and misery?
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Its a problem because I lose actual abilities by doing so - I lose Obliterate/Frost Scythe/Frost Strike.
It leaves me spamming Howling Blast and Death Strike - which as I"m sure your aware is far more then a 15% drop in damage. It leaves me unable to use KM or Rime procs.
So you can see why outright removal of 60%+ of the classes core mechanics is not simply a DPS hit - its outright removing class abilities. Now please explain how returning 2 handed Frost removes any class ability from Dual Wield.
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Nope, not what I said at all in any of my posts.
And you want it to return in what way? Transmog? which gives you the visual. Lifting weapon restrictions that just creates other problems like pugs not wanting to take you, if you are trying to progress with a guild they wont want you to nerf yourself, having to get 2 more weapons on top of the 2h so you can actually attend stuff and possibly more issues. Want to have weapon restrictions be lifted and be somewhat balanced through a runeforge combination? Want to remove DW and make it 2h?
There isnt just one overall position on 2h.