I forgot how much blizz enjoys back-tracking on established lore for the rule of cool. blegh.
But my last point still stands: There is zero discussion about a 2h frost thread on the class development forums. Why wasn’t this megathread wasn’t made there? (where the devs actually pay some attention).
They have retconned a lot of lore actually. I bet they change that demons didn’t actually create it, the helm, or the armor at all even though the Lich King was the product of the burning Legion who, as far was we know, has no access to the afterlife since they are immortal.
Everyone is just going with this retconned lore because it’s convienient. It wasn’t created in the Shadowlands, again unless the demons have access somehow, but then that would mean Sylvanas could have just worked with the demons and didn’t need to break the helm which they need to explain that as well. If they were all created in the Shadowlands why didn’t the destruction of Frostmourne and the release of all its souls not break this barrier?
Frostmourne is dead and gone. We arent getting it.
We have the frozen prince blades and thats it
Aw, buzz off dude! This is EXACTLY the kind of BS I wanted to avoid in the first place! Besides, if you don’t even have anything constructive to say here, just don’t say anything!
And another thing, the Twin Blades STILL feel like the biggest middle finger DKs as a whole got, with Frost getting hit by it the hardest. And with the balance of life and death itself threatened by Sylvanas and the Jailer, we have nothing to lose, and all to gain by allowing the weapon that ended Sylvanas the first time to truly return at last! Plus, it would be major karma for Sylvanas to die at that blade’s end again. The Shadowlands was where it was created anyway, at the Forge of Domination, where the Burning Legion’s Nathrezim created Frostmourne, the Helm of Domination, and The Plate of the Damned! Or at least forced the owner of the Forge to create them!
/signed
Also make obliterate pure frost damage, remove frost strike and replace it with death coil (make death coil do shadowfrost damage).
Thanks Rhull, but I rather keep Frost Strike, have Obliterate be both physical and Frost damage that scales with the user’s stats (Mastery or Haste, I dunno), and make Death Coil the same as the other DK specs. Though Frost adding Shadowfrost damage to Death Coil could be a nice one come to think of it. Either way, welcome aboard.
Retconned lore. There is a big hole that would need to be filled, and the devs kind of shut the door on that being answered. They said that the Shadowlands is for mortal beings and demons do not go there. Granted they could be talking about when demons die, but you also have to take into account that Ion, up on that stage, said “there was no way to get there until now”.
So how did the Nathrezim even get there, if there was no way to get there aside from death for the mortal races. He talked about 1 person leaving, but never really talked about a race of demons breaking through the barrier to use a forge that they didnt need to use.
Ugh, I already tried to explain this before, that the Nathrezim can travel to multiple worlds, and the Shadowlands can be no exception. I don’t think they would share their secrets on how they could have gotten there anyway. But I highly doubt they needed to die at all to get to the Shadowlands in the first place, and STILL keep that a secret, even from the rest of the Burning Legion. How else could they have retrieved the armor and Frostmourne and put it all in the Frozen Throne anyway?
That is just an assumption to make the retconned story work that goes against what Blizzard has said on the matter.
I doubt they will retcon it becauaw that implies the demons had access to the shadowlands
I am rather over giving people the mind treatment. Internet anonymity means too many people fly off the cuff when they meet those who disagree.
I am fine with 2h froat, mot frostmourne
Kelliste kept throwing “retcon” around a whole lot ever since it was revealed the armor and Frostmourne came from the Shadowlands. But we never were told WHO made the armor or HOW, just that it was in the Twisting Nether when Ner’zhul was trapped in it by the Nathrezim and became the Lich King. It’s getting pretty annoying hearing that so much from him at this point now.
And another thing, I was suggesting the players get mere transmogs of Frostmourne. Of COURSE they won’t get the real deal to keep for themselves! That would go to Bolvar instead for him to use in the final raid. HE’S the current Lich King anyway, even after the Helmet was destroyed by Sylvanas. But we might be able to fix it too since the gem is still intact, and the Forge of Domination was where both The Helm of Domination and Frostmourne were created.
It was stated the weapon and armor were made by the Nathrezim.
IIRC< during the quest for apocalypse, it is stated the blade was made by the same individuals who created frostmourne and the lich king armor in which ner’zul had been bound.
This is why Kelliste keeps bringing up the retcon, because she is technically right. It is indeed a retcon.
As for Frostmourne, I disagree with the notion of having it around simply because of how it was broken into two blades. I would rather the two blades can fuse together to make something that is frostmourne inspired but not the same as it.
Sorry, I got my stuff mixed up with someone else’s explanation after getting so frustrated by him/her throwing around “retcon” so much endlessly. Even if the Nathrezim did indeed create the armor and Frostmourne, we STILL were never told exactly HOW they created Frostmourne and the armor anyway. So Blizz better show how the Nathrezim came to the Shadowlands in secret to have everything from the Frozen Throne be created, and then take it to the Twisting Nether.
Also, I already tried to explain my reasons for reforging Frostmourne. Two of which were that not only would rebirthing Frostmourne for real fix the pain of the Twin Blades for so long, it would be VERY fitting for Bolvar to use Frostmourne in the final raid and cut down Sylvanas with it, like the first time she died. Plus, we would have nothing to lose and all to gain at this point if Bolvar takes up the real Frostmourne for the endgame raid. And I was saying we would get mere transmogs of it as a reward also. But I’m more about seeing Frostmourne being whole again in general, not if the players get to use it in general, even though I REALLY would prefer it if players got a transmog of Frostmourne as a reward for doing the quest line to repair it for Bolvar.
Bolvar would never wish to use Frostmourne as the weapon was certainly iconic of Arthas. It wouldn’t be fitting of him to use it at any point, and it would certainly be against his character to wield such a weapon.
Bolvar is someone of duty, he would hate holding such a weapon, and killing Sylvanas with it, while ironic, is not something I foresee occurring.
I do foresee Sylvanas doing something that does not involve her dying at our hands. She’s been a character whose always been selfish, so I doubt she’ll ever put herself in a position to be assaulted.
You just have so much distaste for me that you would rather ignore actual lore and Blizzard retconning stuff than to even admit I was right. Its a retcon, and people have been trying to create a work around like “they stole it” which implies that they had to have access to the Shadowlands. Not to mention that they would have to know about the Shadowlands in the first place, and know about the forge, but since they technically dont die and they return to the Twisting Nether they wouldnt know if it existed or even how to go there. Its not another world that they can travel to.
Its just like we know about the Void Lords because of the Old Gods, yet they cannot interact with anything outside of their dimension directly and created the old gods to devour our universe.
The Nathrezim have access to many demon forges, on their world on the Eredar world which they to have forged weapons and the closest weapon to Frostmourne is Maw of the Damned. Kil’jaeden has done stuff to peoples souls constantly like with Maw of the Damned which is probably the closest thing to Frostmourne that Death Knights are ever going to get. It has the soul of its creator trapped inside the skull by Kil’jaeden, who also trapped Ner’zhuls soul in the armor helm and weapon.
This is a blatant retcon. And I dont think Blizzard really cares that people think the twin swords are a slap in the face. According to them Frostmournes story has finished.
There are so many holes in this and people are just running with it and truthfully they need to change the forges name because it all just doesnt add up.
The jailer is probably just using her, and now that the living is in the Shadowlands, he might not need her anymore and just discard her and then it will be left to everyone else to fix her screw ups. Just like WoD was people fixing what Garrosh did. Every time someone has done something like this, its the players just fixing their mess.
Indeed, it is really, really unfortunate they changed the story in such a manner.
I believe the only weapon similar to Frostmourne in power is Apocalypse. I believe it is stated to be a world ender, with the Maw weapon being almost as powerful but not as old as Apoc.
Maw was meant for one person, Kil’jaeden. The creator wanted his life force but he stopped him, bound his spirit to his own skull and had it fused to the axe. That’s why I said it was close. It has a spirit bound to it and it sucks life force instead of being a soul stealer.
Blizzard totally screwed up this lore just because they needed some way to explore the Shadowlands.
I already had a very bad taste from my previous encounters with you is the thing. Having a bad first impression isn’t easy to have it go away after all. But you’re right that the Jailer might be using Sylvanas. In fact, I think both are trying to use each other in reality. But it all comes down to who can usurp the other first in the end I think.
The Frostmourne was originally from the shadowlands, why not just allow DKs a questline to research the creation of it and craft a replica, which can be used to transmog. Everyone wins.