Not sure why they got rid of 10 mans for this phase, they were honestly perfect. Trying to find a different guild to pair with and then finding some but they were doing worse dps/healing than pugs just made us not want to even raid. Why not just make it like retail where you can have whatever size raid you want? Sunken Temple didn’t need to be 20 man…
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Same thing happened with my guild, except that it died because the raid leader didn’t feel like recruiting. You can blame the leadership for the death of your guild, not the change from 10 to 20 man raiding.
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Both have a role to play in it. We did recruit other guilds, they were all not very good though and we were spending 3 days a week for 5+ hours trying to clear because none of the guilds we found had people that could do mechanics or do what their role is supposed to. Also it’s hard to find a group of people that fits your guilds humor to where everyone is having fun.
He didn’t personally feel like recruiting, or he didn’t want anyone recruiting.
I personally enjoy recruiting.
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I recruited for guilds in Legion/BFA, it had its good points (made a few IRL friends from it) but its just a lot of social networking and takes away from what I actually want to do in the game.
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Not a fan of 20 mans, and I’m worried 40 mans are going to be even worse… there was a reason 40 mans were phased out, it was still just only 25 people doing things usually and the other 15 people afk watching movies while barely doing anything.
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So what was the plan going into p4 then? That is going to be 20 players as well. The whole point of making ST 20 players was to give guilds like yours an opportunity to figure out a solution to the increased raid size that they announced months ago.
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But why? I see no appeal to having 20 people an having to merge guilds. Why make 10 mans if we are just going to move into 20? 20 Means more people you have to recruit, have to make sure they can actually google their rotation and google the boss mechanics, make sure that your guild fits them with their vibe and humor, and then also line up all your schedules for the right raid times…
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So your post is really just screaming about not wanting 20 player raids that they literally told you they were making.
Blizzard’s biggest mistake was making the early raids 10 players so people gave zero effort to make larger groups. Now we are stuck with posts from people like you. I rarely say this, but go back to retail.
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Sounds like you’re missing out on making new friends. We’re having a great time. Maybe it’s time to be more outgoing?
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Just because I tell someone I am going to do something to them doesn’t mean they can’t say they don’t want it to happen to them. Blizzard can announce that they are making 20 mans but it doesn’t mean I’ll like them over 10 mans.
Nah 10 man was the best part of SoD.
Tried to do it, but doesn’t seem to work. Not everyone is outgoing, some people want to stick with their 10 man group they been running with since phase 1.
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20 man killed my guild merging with another and killed my passion to play, because of the pharsing nature and making the comp to maxing dps and i am forced to dps while wanting to tank. you don’t need an 2nd tank for 70% of the fights. No point being there for my role. Going into 40 man WILL make it worse for everyone that have to change role and feel less important.
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Because they’re out of touch with the player-base and pay attention to a small portion of the game who wanted 40 mans and probably did 20 man as a compromise.
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It’s a 100% this. It’s similar to the world buff meta, they ignored the majority of people propping up SoD’s numbers to cater for the vocal minority of classic andy’s who are toxic to the long term survivability of the game.
Most of my friends list who were having a blast in p1 and p2 have quit. They don’t come to the forums to express their opinion, they just stop playing. The reason? Primarily no longer being able to do 10man raids, which were far easier to organise and get going randomly.
Now their only option was PVP (which Blizz don’t even try to balance - 10% priest buff lol), or incursions which are one of the worst content ideas Blizz have ever created.
I’ll never understand these classic Andy’s who demand obviously population-killing moves in an experimental mode, because “mah classic”, when Era still exists.
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Same experience.
I’d say about 20 out of the 30 people I made friends with/regularly played with have just disappeared. They still occasionally pop up in Discord, but they’ve all stopped playing. Of those that remain, hardly anyone is playing an alt. Phase 3 killed the “friend group” style of play that was prevalent in many circles I ran in.
Between incursions killing dungeons and ST killing the 10 man, all that’s left are the minority that wanted 20-40 man raids. My server feels/is empty, with just a couple of guilds raid logging once a week. Cities mostly empty, rarely encounter people in the wild, no dungeons run below 50, and only a few wild offerings spam runs going.
Phase 4 gonna be great for a couple of big guilds. Nearly everyone I built rapport with over the last 5 months has phased themselves out, though. The future looks like either join a big guild and hope you get a raid spot once a week, or stop playing.
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if your guild failed it’s because leadership failed to properly recruit
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It couldn’t be because they don’t want to do 20-mans and enjoy their small group setting, deciding to play something else instead of doing something they don’t want to do?
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Even the guilds who mass recruited aren’t running raids full guild. It’s hilarious to see 50 peoples split up between 7 raids with randoms for the rest.
I know, on Lonewolf, my guilds just been happy to raid alongside another guild. We have a few set-up. I’d love to have 40 people I can count on to have the same schedule 2-3 days a week. However, that’s not likely. Made friends with 2 guilds and we’re gonna be stuck mixing and matching too come 40-mans. Should just make them flex considering how huge of a hit the play-base has been taking.
We’re full Paradox 20man now. Hopefully able to get full Paradox 40man but no matter how many recruitment posts are made, channels are spammed, and people that’re approached. It’s been D E A D.
So 20man raids are not an issue in my opinion. Fielding 20 people for a good raid group should not be a problem when you know that 10man was never the end goal.
TSH has been preparing for this. As a larger guild we fielded 6 10man teams, now having 3 20man teams. Currently bout to start forming a 4th 20man out of recruitment etc.
The problem is having multiple people able and willing to lead these smaller and easier raids. I do however hope we stick to 20man, not going 40. “Roster Boss” is a monster when dealing with 40mans.
Yeah, the damage of roster boss. This arrives when you stretch your guild members thin into too many teams and don’t have people willing to play backup/bring an alt when you get a no show.
One of my guild’s raid teams just had to outsource a healer tonight because multiple called off last minute.
Back to OP point.
We’ve had multiple guilds ask us to help fill their teams and have seen others having issues trying to strive under the changes from 10 to 20. Even having one merg into us to source and become part of one of our raid teams.
Right now trying to get the 4th 20man going so if they do decide to push us into 40man teams we can just merge teams again like we did with going from 10 to 20. A big part of guild leading is looking forward and planning ahead. I think a lot of people did not do that and we are starting to see it really decimate some guilds.
I play on Lava Lash and you see this a lot. So that in their recruitment they can spam that they have X 20 Player ST clear teams. Not that it helps them actually recruit anyone as they have continued to be spread out with pug fill ins.
We started Phase 3 in an alliance with another guild to have 20 players. We still had to pug spots and then dissolved the alliance for various reasons. We picked up some people from other guilds that have become regulars and still spam to fill in the other spots along with a bunch of other raids doing the same. So there is a lot of competition and only so many people that want to raid.
They’ve put together what I guess you would call a Coalition of quite a few guilds. Where everyone can list their raid times and what roles they need. When boon drops happen all that kind of thing.
Anyway at least on Lava Lash I don’t see any guild have a “guild only” 40 player raid team. I don’t think there are a lot of guilds on LL with a “guild only” 20 (I know there are some). Also not sure why people “blah blah” that Blizzard told us 20 player raids were coming. Who cares if they told us? The result has been obvious and oddly my thought process was a “for profit” company wants more subscriptions… not less. So in that regard add it to the list of things “the team” was wrong about.
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