1.12 AV is a huge, huge mistake

Well, while you could take the visual layout, possibly.
I am sure it is not that hard, swaping in old models etc.
You have to go by hand and tune all the npc’s and compare against lots of data.
1.12 toons were not just amped up simply by saying increase such and such across the board 25% etc.
You would have to look at all the changes to the toons and the gear.
So it would be a lot of tedious hand work, tuning and testing, so that it actually works right.
Looking right is the easy part.

If you took the anniversary one, which is specifically tuned for retail toons
and said, oh well lets just reduce the NPC’s stuff by about half, it would work really terribad.

My point is that if they were willing to tune stuff for an iteration that they were going to give to those who didn’t ask for it and arguably didn’t want it, they could do at least that much for those who were begging for it, were giving longwinded detailed arguments for it, and were ones who were actually adding to the playerbase and profits.

This version of AV remains an embarrassing train wreck and an ugly stain on what is otherwise a fun classic experience.

They could, and i personally would have enjoyed it, but
Those who were begging for it, if looked at across the entirety of the classic playerbase, 90% of which doubtfully come into forums, ever, are probably the same as we were back in 2004.

Which is a minority.
Vocality really does not matter unfortunately.
If 10 people want something, 90 do not, all 10 who want it make noise, only 3 out of the 90 that do not ever say a peep, it is still 90 who do not.

A lot of complaint and feedback gets done through the games interface
we never see it here, but blizzard sees it.

As for as to why they went with the AV they did.
Simple, it is part of the intact 1.12 data, and they set out to keep classic as authentic as possible to the version they built it from, even so far as to keep existing bugs and oddities in place.
Same reason they are not going to put in AQ with the original C’Thun (and then unbug him of course, so he doesn’t cheat)

I mean hell, personally i think it would be cool, to go through classic item by item, by ability, by mob etc and retune all the mobs and raid and dungeons to provide the same difficulty to a 1.12 toon as they did to a 1.0x toon, but that is not what classic is, and it is not adhering to the data set at all.
(And would probably generate a lot of hate mail too)

That is pretty much what it was back then too.
At least to some of us.
To the player base at large though, in all honesty, it was probably the most popular rendition (for the same reason people are spamming it now)

You don’t think that 10% was sufficient sample size?

What % of retail accounts do you imagine asked for the early AV version they were gifted?

This thread has well over 1300 likes of the OP. In contrast the AV announcement thread “Alterac Valley in Classic” has a grand total of 133, and is arguably the worst pushback of any classic decision blizzard has made. Are you really prepared to suggest that only those most vocal are expressing themselves and are the minority?

Do you imagine it magically contrasts what we are seeing in the forum?

Nobody buys that at this point. If you had stated “least amount of effort” you may have a valid insight. However in light of the actual work and testing they put into the 15th anniversary representation of early AV, not so much.

They were willing and able to do the effort required to create a proper AV version that best represented vanilla AV. They were simply unwilling to give it to those who actually asked for it.

There is that “most popular” thing yet again.

For the bazillionth time:
Participation is not a proper measurement of quality or enjoyment.

No, it is not.

From personal experience, most of a games playerbase will not use a games social media (forums)
You will never get any kind of good cross section that way.
You could have 10 million subscribers, you would be lucky to get 10% of them into a public forum, where other people see them, can yell at them, call them names etc.

You will get feedback from most of them, through channels that are private and dont entail them having to “speak in public” so to speak.
They will use email to the company, they will use private ingame communication feedback and reporting abilities, some might even use web based tools, as long as they are private between the company and them.

So you got your 10 million people right?
You get 1 million to come on the forum with you and post Yo blizz this SUX!! CHange it NAOW!!! KthnxBai.

Ok, you got 1 million people, you are thinking Yep, that should show them.


4 million people have submitted, through the private channels, feedback opposite yours, 2 million have submitted feedback in the cancellation surveys, that is opposite to your groups feedback.
And 3 million dont say anything at all, and either play as is, or cancel with no reason given.

Which only makes your group a publicly vocal minority.
It only looks popular in the public view, but behind the scenes the story is much different.
Make sense?

Totally honest answer?
I have no idea, i am so far away from retail i could not tell you a thing about it.

See above

Yes, see above

Again, you are trying to project this from your point of view, but we knew already, a long time ago, This is what classic is going to be, they were going to stick with the version they had as consistently as possible, the good the bad and the ugly, it was not up for debate.
We could ask for what ever we wanted, but it was not actually an option.

Retail is a whole other planet, and really does not enter into it.

1.12 AV is still a huge, huge mistake.


I love pvp, always loved AV, and hadn’t really played 1.12 in the past. This version is not what I wanted. While I still enjoy AB and WsG, i find it hard to get into premades on my server. Facing premade after premade is becoming a little tiresome. I loved AV premades because that allowed for some coordination and didn’t always allow for a win. Instead we’d have fun and fair matches vs the horde. I’m on the fence on continuing my support for this game. (Side note, I consider myself a fairly decent PvP player, but premades only want rank 11 or higher, and I don’t have the time to grind rank)

Fortunately i consider pvp a side game in WoW so it’s not a huge deal that WSG/AB are unplayable because of premades and blizzard nerfed alliance in AV but refuses to do anything to horde.

As predicted, yet they still have their fingers in their ears going lalalalala…

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This is what bothers me about the current state of Blizzard, it feels like subscribers are not being heard. I understand that corporations have to make money, but Blizzard is making substantial amounts from releasing WoW classic. It seems they are putting forth minimal effort to satisfy the needs of their consumers. I am debating whether to continue my support of WoW classic and Blizzard. I’m only one subscription, but I can’t be the only person that feels this way.


The 1.12 AV decision was made about 18 months ago. And it still bothers you?

Or are you expecting a constantly-changing game, that keeps changing the way YOU want (not the way “the playerbase” wants)?

One of the biggest reasons I was excited about Classic was my love for original AV… when I heard it was 1.12 I never did a single queue, and looking at all the posts of the imbalance and lack of fun, I’m glad I didn’t… what a horrible waste by Blizzard, out of touch with the playerbase as always… took years of kicking and screaming for them to even release Classic in the first place.


I actually grinded AV to exalted back in Vanilla. The original version was literally like an endless battleground where you could stay for an hour and rack up HKs and honor until the DRs hit. The constant pushing back and forth was entertaining. There was way more NPCs and stuff you had to kill on the map.

Once they updated the map it became more of a race to the end and matches usually didn’t last more than 15 minutes.

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it still bothers a lot of people, as evidenced by this thread having continued for over a year and a half. troll elsewhere.


I wish they would just release 1.5 AV as an option so people could see that what they liked about it wasn’t the map itself.

Pretty sure they liked fun. This one isn’t fun.


This thread to massive :sweat_smile: can’t read it all… Yes Av has always been in favor for the horde, but hey alli still win sometimes. Its far to late to fix Av, alliance have already accepted that Av is not a place for them so not afk’ing and working as a team is just a lost memory of days passed. The battle ground is much to quick for the size of it. Alliance used to win much more in vanilla as there was more opportunity to overcome the disadvantages because of the longer battles. The spirit of Av is long gone. you’ll never get those days back from vanilla it was like a game in a game. Instead of standing in stormwind lfm to do a dungeon you would be lfm to go on stealth mission or Locking down a bunker for 2hours, it was very fun and I have very fond memories of that time. I was very disappointed when Av was released in classic and it was nothing not even a tiny bit like the old days oh well :older_adult:

Yeah, I am considering leaving this garbage service too, Ill see when I reach 60 and enjoy all the “features” of being 60. I have left in the past so I am not an addicted fanboy that can’t unsub and give Blizzard the middle finger if I don’t like their stupid desicions.

The AV described here sounds really cool, it is a shame completely that they didn’t put this is.

Anyway why original Blizzard (not this travesty of clows worried more about character genders and being overal hypocrites) removed the old AV in place for the new one in 1.12?