The Deathbringer changes from PTR were effectively a ~8% buff to Frost’s dps. This caused community outcry and resulted in kneejerk heavy nerfs to Reaper’s Mark, Breath, and Obliterate to effect a 0.6% single target nerf.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA wont even comment on this
Compare the PTR sims pre-nerf to the live numbers pre-nerf. The Breath profile gained 150k dps from the Deathbringer changes. The nerf attacks that number, not the live pre number. Even if an ability is nerfed 10%, we gain so much from the new Deathbringer talents that it counters the nerf
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I am a die hard 2h frost fan. I am saddened that I will be even farther behind.
At the very least, I want 2h obliteration builds to be good enough to where I can do decently high keys (maybe +8-+10 once I get enough gear).
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Thank you for this. I was primarily a Rider Obliterate build pre-patch and when running in groups for Delves, I was usually able to do pretty well. However, I could not understand why the Obliterate nerf was necessary and post-patch, its definitely had quite an impact.
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EU, I’m nearly 2700 rating and have done +11s running purely 2H build. We’re behind 5% but that actually, funnily enough, makes us balanced and puts us on the same level as the mid tier. It’s definitely possible.
This is what stood out to me as odd. 2h frost, and riders took an unwarranted nerf. I would have like to see the oblit nerf removed and just take more power out of bos.
And rip DB blood. Absolute unfortunate proximity nerf.
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Obliterate took around 4 nerfs since prepatch, it’s in the same boat as Arctic Assault, I think Obliterate Main Target needs to be reverted a bit and the Obliterate Cleaves need the “lesser” treatment and deal 75% damage or some sort. Either that or remove it and put Frostscythe in the forefront for cleave.
Outlaw is bugged at the moment, which is why people should ignore it at the moment. If you are going to troll (what an actual troll looks like people) at least do better than just showing your cards.
Do you guys feel like the changes doesn’t make any sense?
PTR DB tree changes clearly showed design intent to improve damage on one target scenario, which is our biggest weakness. It’s just that necessary AoE tuning after did not happen in time. And then suddenly it shifted to “make it roughly the same as live”.
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I think most are unhappy with the damage reductions. The Dark Talons change was nice so it’s easier to get to 40 stacks of Reaper’s Mark.
I don’t know about anybody else, but I’m struggling to keep my ST damage above 550k with no buffs. I don’t know if that’s on par or not, I just know hitting what Raidbots gets seems like it would take a ton of luck with proc.’s.
100%
This is very upsetting. Tuning in a vacuum.
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Yes that is why i said outlaw hasn’t been meta in years, it’s not meta now. Also it never been bottom either, outlaw is just fine.
So, can blizzard finally admit that keeping Bos is a mistake and that spell will aways be do or die for the spec as long as it exists?
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Breath isn’t remotely close to being one of the top 5 issues with the spec and has 0 actual impact on the spec’s suffocation.
That is great to hear. I don’t mind being 5% behind at all, especially when we’re still middle of the pack relative to all specs. I just want to do the best I can with what I enjoy - using a 2h weapon as frost without Breath. What build do you use? I am curious about both an air build and a single target one, just in case I get into a normal (or maybe heroic) raid at some point.
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I hope that theotycrafters are willing to support 2h frost so that I know how to do the best I can with a 2h weapon.
I’m not sure what you mean by this.
If you’re referring to sims, 2h support has existed since it was reintroduced in SL.
If you’re referring to builds/suggestions, that simply won’t happen because it was 3% behind Shattering builds which were 2-3% behind Breath, and now that Shattering is 5%~ behind, it’s safe to say 2h is 7-8%+ behind. Theorycrafters aren’t going to recommend a massively inferior option to the players, especially one that’s for a niche subsection. It’s the same reason DW Obliteration received 0 notes from TCs in Dragonflight when it was basically the same ST DPS as 2h; it was much more complex, intensive, and prone to error to play correct just to match 2h.
Essentially, 2h is just Shattering without Shattering, and there’s plenty of talents (both in ST and AoE) that can be taken instead of the Shattering suite.
For M+, I’m using what I’m comfortable with:
I take Absolute Zero for CC + DD, Glacial Advance instead of Avalanche since stacking up Razorice for burst is better and has good damage at 3+ target cleave. I’ve noticed single target took a hit since Obliterate got nerfed. Either way, if you know your mechanics then you can definitely do 11+.
I’m ilvl 627, 30% crit /w flask, 10% haste and 56% mastery. Crit is worth so much this season. 2H definitely feels better with more haste but we’re not there yet due to low stat budget. Would be interesting to see where 2H stands once it reaches the breakpoints it needs for stats, during DF S4, large majority of my Obliterates were just KMs.
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Mid of pack? We are dead last with this upcoming tuning to boss. We need at least Obl reverted.
Deathknights are a ‘Hero Class’ right? Doesn’t that mean we’re SUPPOSED to be strong with a High Skill Ceiling? Here I was hoping Frost would be the ‘Punch face for massive damage deathknight spec’ where Unholy was the ‘Death by a million rusty knives’ Spec.
I agree, Bring back our Facepunch Frost Funtime.
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