This comment shows your hand…
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Tbh I think most monks running low 20s and under would probably have an easier time running a CF build than AT/FL.
Healer dps doesn’t really matter that much at that point and being able to do good healing during periods of challenging melee uptime is helpful. Especially on tyrannical weeks.
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The problem there is mostly that the set isn’t written as ‘targeted spells’ like GoM it’s written as ‘all healing from you’ which makes it seem bugged if not all of your healing works.
If they changed the wording then sure, but the wording should be the intent on how it works.
Yea I agree.
The 4pce does count overhealing though. Imagine if I could just Fistweave my way to having ReM on the whole party and sit on a FLS spamming SCK for huge HPS and then press ReM to refresh a Chi Harmony buff and get 20% of all my SCK healing split onto the party. It would be crazy strong so I can understand why it doesn’t work that way. Same thing with spreading ReM’s and charging up Chi Harmonies with just Enveloping spam with Tear of Morning.
If they were worried about HPS then they should remove Soom → EnvM - Vivify spam for chi harmonies, that is far more hps that will be replicated than what ATotM can provide.
Bumping the thread essentially. No new changes as of September 20th. We did figure out that sometimes on log in the 4 set doesn’t calculate correctly (1-3% off) and if you use a regenerative leech enchant on your cloak or use sporecloak out of combat and test you will skew your numbers.
MW dev please read this.
The spec is going further and further the wrong way with every change. After buffing JSS statue, we are quickly approaching a world in raid where we never use Tiger Palm, or even Black-Out Kick while using Clouded Focus in raid. Single-tapping Soothing Mist with JSS and Unison suddenly becomes a very strong global. Why doesn’t the tier 4set benefit from Ancient Teachings and Chi-Ji gusts and many other things?
Are you aware how hard you are forcing the dreaded Clouded Focus playstyle now more than ever with all of these changes going into 10.2? What is MW without Teachings of the Monastery? We are going to be a melee spec in name only now.
The one saving grace of Clouded Focus was the fact that whenever you ramped, you could choose one person to channel Soothing Mist into and guarantee they survive the next damage event. There was at least that level of choice and agency. However, with our Chi Harmony storing benefitting from direct Vivify healing and not much else, we are no longer getting to choose who to channel Soothing Mist into. We simply look at who got the random Rapid Diffusion procs (and thus have Chi Harmony) and pump literally 94% Vivify overheal (from PTR raid testing) into them in order to power up the Chi Harmony burst heal.
In Blizzard’s own words on the intended effect of 10.2 healer changes:
At its core, we want healers to have interesting abilities and choices to make while healing… We’re hoping our changes reduce the amount of overhealing…
However, MW is taking multiple steps in the exact opposite direction from these goals going into 10.2. We are now making less choices and utilizing single target spot healing even less; we are simply going to spam Invigorating Mists even harder and heal randomly-chosen Chi Harmony targets, regardless of who they are/how much healing they need.
Please look at reworking the 4set bonus entirely and buffing Ancient Teachings and Chi-Ji to be on a competitive level with Clouded Focus/Yu’lon in raid.
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Do we even have a MW dev? One who, at minimum, plays the class at a high level? The healing elixir change… hoo boy. Whoever tested that change hasn’t been playing MW in S2. Or if they have, it wasn’t above the +15 key level.
most likely none of the class devs play the game at a high level, especially not on multiple specs and classes as would be needed.
It’s called a caster mistweaving build, if you think thats suboptimal than fistweaving is just as suboptimal.
So glad to see another caster MW here, have a lot of respect for you. I’m tired of fistweavers always trying to bring us Mistweavers down.
You are so wrong on many levels, a CF caster build can do just as equally good as a FLS fistweaving build.
Most people only do 20-25 anyways for the weekly loot, there is no need to go above that unless you are part of the 1%. A CF caster build is viable to 99% of the playerbase.
This is precisely why the so-called mistweavers get “brought down” on here and peak. You can play what you like, no one really cares. But statements like the above are why you get called out, because they’re completely untrue and not supported by anything more than your conjecture. You even admit it at the end by acknowledging you can play what you want in the content most people play. Just quit lying about it being able to pull the same numbers, it can’t. The class is literally designed to fistweave.
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It is not designed to fist weave, that is the issue with you “fistweavers” and why posts like this exist. You guys have such an elitist attitude that you boldly claim it was designed to fist weave when in fact it is not. Fistweaving wasn’t even a thing again until SL.
I feel like your Soomweaver back on an alt. You’ve gone into literally every post about MW and picked fights about fistweaving versus mistweaving. That coupled with the lies about firstweavers denigrating mistweavers is too similar.
it is because of fistweavers like you that I have to constantly defend myself, I saw your post history and let me tell you… you certainly do not have a good track record. You said the casting build is suboptimal and then you were calling people who do ranged mw as “bad players” then you proceed to make baseless claims that fistweaving is the way the class is meant to be played… which is not true fyi. So every bit of criticism you get from the monk community is totally deserved because you are a biased fistweaver at the end of the day.
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Can you go away again Soomweaver?
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Felt the need to comment on this because I feel like you’re misunderstanding a lot about the spec. Fistweaving existed before in 5.0 when Mistweaver was released. It was “removed” in Legion because the devs wanted to focus on Mistweaver being a ranged healer rather than a hybrid one. Playing in melee range became a thing again in 8.3 when Rising Mists was buffed and we started to stack haste and play around that. Since then the most competitive build in raid has been Rising Mists + a variation of other talents whether that is ATOTM in SL, Upwelling in 10.0, or Clouded Focus in 10.1.
I don’t want to personally target your understanding of the spec but I implore you to look at how many talents interact with our melee abilities. I also do not like to use the classification of “fistweaver”, it’s just Mistweaver Monk.
The most competitive builds in both M+ and raid at the moment consist of using Rising Mists and playing around Rising Sun Kick and your Celestial window. It would be the most literal use-case of the word “suboptimal” when referring to a Tear of Morning, strictly ranged based build as the ranged builds are capable of clearing the content but are not what is competitively the best. If you wanted to be completely optimal in your play you would go with Rising Mists and Clouded Focus, anything else at that point would be suboptimal.
I hope this helps clarify some things for you. I did not want to appear hostile in any way I just wanted to clear up some obvious misunderstandings.
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It’s Soomweaver, they know what they’re doing, which is why they were banned from Peak. I wouldn’t waste any additional time.
Then that is Blizzard’s fault to blame, If they made it a ranged healer, then why go back on that decision 2 expansions later?? appease both crowds (fistweaving and mistweaving) if you’re going to implement something like that beforehand. They cause this conflict between caster mw and fistweaving. There is no one else to blame for this.
I think the community has created the word “fistweaver” themselves tbh. Yes, a lot of the talents interact with the melee abilities but there is an option to opt out of them and explore other talents, otherwise blizzard wouldn’t have added in caster talents in the first place. This is the reason why there is a clear disparity between fistweaving and mistweaving. I mean there is no way a fistweaver would pick talents like unison or tear and a caster would never pick fae or teachings.
No problem! thank you for being civil and not resorting to petty name-calling like certain people on the forums do.
This is the reason why fistweavers have a bad rep, resorting to name calling and then invalidating the caster build. I’ve seen it too many times where some of these fistweavers think that the caster talents should be deleted or that we are not just as valid as them.
I didn’t name call, I simply pointed out who you were. Your attitude is what got you banned from Peak in the first place. I believe people can play whatever they want as it doesn’t matter for the majority of players. I also believe you’re back again to just start fights.
I never said you had to play only “this” or only “that” this arguement started in the first place because of fistweavers constantly telling me I was bad for playing a caster build. I’m not the only one, I have first hand seen other caster monks get abuse thrown at them for playing a non-meta build. Look at the reddit section for mistweavers and the comments are full of fistweavers “delete the caster talents” “you are bad if you don’t fistweave” “fistweaving is the only way” etc etc… constant slandering of the caster monk build.