TL;DR nobody likes it at all but they are leaving it in because it artificially inflates your subscription by making you farm longer for your best in slot, so they are leaving it in because they only care about your money.
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Yep, heās arguing as if this was 10 years ago. The definition has changed. Itās not reasonable to expect a 425 + socket item in each slot. Yet thatās what heās pretending BiS is now. Itās simply not attainable. In the end, his argument is semantic wordplay because what heās pretending BiS is doesnāt exist anymore.
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The point is that is absolutely achievable through content that requires significantly less effort.
Right now we are talking about from the stand point as an alt hitting max level after BoD release. However most people wouldnāt have started at that point, they would have been at various stages, a lot of which would have been already at the stage where WQs and embassies offer then best rewards.
We had 385 rewards from Darkshore and the respective world boss since the start of December, over a month before the raid was released. Each faction had at least 2 attempts at these before release.
And everyone already had access to 370 rewards through WQs.
By the time normal raids were released a lot of people were already 380+ making normal raid content almost irrelevant, not taking into account the fact that on release day people then had access to 385 embassies and Alliance had access to up to 4 ilvl 400+ items that week.
This is factually incorrect. Based on your statement 415 is better than 425 in terms of ilvls.
If you ignore reality everything is hard to grasp
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So I had a weekend and came back to see that there were a few more discussions in this thread. ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
I wanted to let all of you know that I have been going through things and I really appreciate those of you who took the time to share their experiences, their play style, and how this system affects them. I also hope that some of you saw what I saw and how there are a few different opinions out there.
Just wanted to say Iām still around, cheers!
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Really appreciative of the presence. Itās nice to know at times that at least the communityās voice is still being heard.
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eats Bornakk
Mmmā¦Warcraft waffle iconā¦ (needs cherry syrup though)
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Will say that even though Iām currently unsubbed right now, your presence has been appreciated and Iām glad threads like these are getting attention.
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Yeah, itās certainly a controversial topic, but many people think that it is ruining the game while another group thinks that its kinda cool when it happens.
Either way, I donāt think anyone reading this thread is under the illusion that anyone at Blizzard has, even for one second, realistically considered removing Warforging from the game.
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But isnāt there also an issue feeling disappointed again and again? For me WF/TF ruined enjoyment over gearing my characters. Does that mean it is bad for the game? I do not know. I do know it doesnāt work for me. Just another nail in the coffin of my 14yrs of WoW.
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Iāve played since the early days. Over time, 99% of all gear gets vended or disenchanted. I canāt get excited about any gear. War/Titanforge doesnāt make it any less so. Even when I was raiding, hundreds of pieces were disenchanted during raids over time. For me, gear has never been an exciting reward.
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Thanks dad.
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I appreciate your presence.
I donāt like the titanforging system because numerous times (over 10ā¦they were the reason I unsubbed for a couple months) it made getting a piece of gear I needed feel bad because it didnāt forge.
One time a friend and I both got the same staff from a key, but his was warforged. This made me just feel bummed about mine.
Iād say my biggest problem is that I have no desire to raid at a high level anymore because of the potential for just getting lucky in a key (for most slots at least, I know azerite pieces and weapons are generally always going to be highest from mythic - to be fair I havenāt raided at a high level in several xpacs, but I have the time now and no desire) When my druid got a 380 trinket from an M2 (before 8.1) I wasnāt happy - I was pissed. That kills my desire to progress in raids. Sure this is an unbelievably rare occurrence, but it messes with the psychology.
Whenever I try to think about how the game would be if titanforging was just ripped out I also wonder how obsolete certain areas (lower keys for example) would become and that worries me. Unfortunately I have nothing else to comment on in that area.
Overall, gear feels meaningless to me. If acquisition is going to stay this way, I think there needs to be more evergreen reasons to run content. Cosmetic rewards for example, things we can work toward that arenāt rendered useless after a patch.
This was scrambled, and Iām sorry. Sort of in a rushing typing this.
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I know itās an unpopular opinion on these forums but for me WF/TF and tertiary stats are honestly the best thing to ever happen to gearing.
Theyāre just a nice little bonus, not something you āneedā. I think a lot of the problem is peopleās obsession to mark off a checklist of BiS. Attaining true BiS is almost impossible now, which I think is good for the health of the game in the long run.
Gear has always involved RNG and itās vastly improved (Iād say too much, tbh) in recent years compared to how we started.
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Guess they can never recapture that feeling you got when that first epic dropped for you while leveling in Vanilla or when you completed your first raid set and/or dungeon set.
I was a Paladin then and I got to say. It felt great wearing Lawbringer and Judgement. You just felt good and invested in your character. Unlike today. Think the other day I scrapped like 30 pieces of Azerite gear trash I let build up because it wasnāt worth my time to do it.
You know maybe Vanilla will bring me back. Maybe it will not. I do know the game was for me at least far more enjoyable when compared to what we have to play today in BfA.
And i am a complete 180 from that thought process. I remember the joy i use to get in getting something i worked hard for. I remember in cata killing the Ascendant Council and getting a Glaciated Helm. It was something i had wanted and had received through work. Yes that helm is long since gone but i remember the joy i felt in that moment. It will stick with me far longer than any TF handout ill ever receive. That was killed for me in Legion when TF came about. Nothing means anything anymore because anything can TF into max ilvl loot and when I get something i want my first thought is ādid it wf/tf?ā and if the answer is no i feel disappointment that i got the worst version of an item that i can get
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Maybe. I didnāt finish my Tier 1 set until we were well into Cataclysm. I never finished Tier 2 or Tier 3. That is what I get for being a team player and filling holes for the guild when they needed it. When youāre always changing characters so everyone gets to raid, you donāt get gear. The one thing I wanted from Vanilla was the Aurastone Hammer. It looked cool. I got it while soloing the raid during Mists.
90% of my completed sets are PVP sets. I think I am missing three seasons. I bought all the sets I have with Marks of Honor.
This depends on the loot system your guild uses. Several of my previous guilds used EPGP, which was extremely fair and had alt functionality build in.
Personally I agree with tertiary stats, I think they are a nice way that players can get a bonus that doesnāt generally affect their gear in an adverse way, since they are all utility benefits.
Iām not sure that itās necessary though for WF/TF, you say about the obsession of checking off a BiS checklist is unhealthy and being unable to achieve BiS is better, however in my opinion how many people actually were at that stage where they are getting full BiS?
Iām going to imagine that it is a considerably small number of players, so having a system that affects the entire player base for that purpose really doesnāt seem right to me.
Iām sure that someone else could probably find it, but there are studies on the effects of having a goal as opposed to a continually moving goal posts. From what I recall, not having a set goal post (ie not having something potentially achievable) actually has negative psychological affects.