i think the point they’re trying to make by saying that is 380 pretty much means you’ve outgeared the entire basegame that is catered towards “casuals” or the level they play at M0 drops 370, LFR drops 370. even Normal raiding drops 385 so the amout of upgrades would be small and not worth it to many people. so blizzard have made season 1 content irrelevant, but also season 2 content becomes irrelevant at the casual level before it has barely begund, even for VERY casual playing hours per week.
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BEST in slot. what is so hard to understand ?
if it aint forged and it aint got the right stats it is not the BEST. what you are reffering to is A S S, all slots sufficient.
it dosn’t matter how small the difference is, best means best.
I believe the idea they wanted was those who were already at 380+ would jump into heroic/Mythic Raiding right away.
What about the honor gear in vanilla? Catchup mechanics have existed the entire time. Sure they’ve changed over the lifetime of the game. But a lot of things have changed. What level ranges do we have to go farm mobs because we’re out of quests to do or because it’s more efficient than taking the time to travel across the world to the next questing zone? What, we don’t, because that’s changed? Or why do we no longer have 30+ minute runs to get to where we want to go? Or why do we no longer train weapon skills? Or ranks of spells? Why are purples the best loot? I had a list of items I had to farm from dungeon rares in vanilla that were all blue and had spell damage. I didn’t switch until they revamped tier gear to include that, and by that point I had a full set of netherwind banked. I could go on and on here. The entire game is a different experience than it was then, and it’s evolved entirely from player feedback and the devs watching player behavior. Hell, a lot of the things we have today that people in this thread are complaining about are directly caused by player behavior and feedback to the loot systems of then. It’s a lose lose for Blizzard.
Except classic isn’t going to be static? Do you think they are going to never put out additional content for it? Never introduce BWL, or AQ, or Naxx, or ZG? All progression content that was included in vanilla? It’s just going to be MC and Ony forever? heh
Why do you think it shouldn’t be this way? Stating you don’t think it should doesn’t exactly result in anything to talk about. Convince me it shouldn’t, though to be fair, if you’re going to talk about how your motivations are predicated upon other people getting the loot you think they deserve don’t bother.
What are you talking about?
You can be raid ready for the new raid through nothing but world quests in a few days. World quests can give up to around 360 Item level gear(non-azerite) and that’s without titanforging. At that point titanforging up to normal level gear(385) isn’t that far fetched and is really just a matter of time because its based on a dice roll. These world quests also take minimal time and effort so you don’t even need to play the game very much.
If the gear from world quests didn’t scale to 360, only 10 item levels away from drazzar’alors lowest difficulty(LFR), than I would agree that it would be such an incredibly rare occurrence that it wouldn’t effect the gear progression of end-game raids. But that’s not the case, and titanforging happens constantly, it is not rare. So yes, it does have a huge impact on gear progression for end-game raids.
400+ is really all that matters, nobody progresses on normal it’s just free loot. The point of everything is get you ready for heroic and mythic raids/ m+. Everything else is irrelevant.
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When I left Raiding was where you got the best gear. So when I saw someone with a Raid title or Mythic +10 I figured that was as geared as you could get. Then I got a piece from LFR or a world boss with a titanforge that was higher then what I had seen.
That is the fundamental flaw of the current system. Why try hard when I can just get lucky and not spend the time. Titanforging should be extremely limited in how it applies and the range of ilvls if you guys insist on keeping it.
Everything I said still applies, even if Heroic/Mythic difficulties are the focus and you completely devalue every other aspect of the game.
Perhaps you should actually give a reason as to why you think I am wrong. Or why you think you are right, or the benefits of titanforging. Or perhaps reasoning to anything at all, because all you’ve done is ignore everything I’ve said and say I am wrong. Issues will never be fixed if we don’t discuss and understand them. If we refuse to discuss them properly, everybody loses.
It depends what you mean by less. The average ilvl of Method getting world first was 406-407. Whilst not quite equal to Mythic rewards it is still truly over Heroic rewards, especially considering they only had 1 Mythic lockout and thus 8 potential loot drops from that content.
Joshpriest himself on Methods world first kill had 415 average ilvl, ie equal to the content he was doing.
Considering that the encounter was only just possible for them to beat at this level whilst race changing 90% of their members to Troll to gimmick a significant mechanic suggests that the encounter was impossible for a guild with only 400 ilvl, the maximum ilvl you could expect without WF/TF being in play.
I’m not certain why that’s a problem. As you mentioned, 406-407 != 415. 400 ilvl is where they should start at upon entering the raid, not where they should be to complete all of it. While you didn’t explicitly say that, your statement implies you feel that there’s something wrong with the end boss of a raid being impossible to beat if you are at the bare minimum of where you should be to enter the raid in the first place. To which I say, so what? Farm the content before it to get to the threshold where you can beat the content if you can’t skill/strategy your way past roadblocks. That’s not any different than progression in any mmo I’ve ever played. You can’t point at forging and pretend that’s the reason things are this way.
But that is completely unlikely to happen. As a new player if you got to 385 through world content and LFR, never done a normal never mind heroic raid in your life, and you then try to do a heroic or mythic raid because you’re ilvl appropriate, you aren’t going to succeed. You are going to fail 9/10 and that isn’t going to feel good, and knowing the community they probably aren’t going to be super forgiving of you.
What are your options after that? Continue to throw yourself at content you aren’t prepared for while potentially being berated for making mistakes? Or are you supposed to go back and do content that is unrewarding just so you can get the experience to step up to the ilvl content you are up to?
I don’t know about you but both those options sounds pretty terrible to me.
It doesn’t affect the players who are used to that content because they know what to expect, the only people you hurt are those below the heroic raiding “threshold”.
The actual ilvl of world scaling is up to 370 for items with 385 embassies. Just for clarification.
But isn’t that then self defeating of the system? If the current system of “cache rewards” and WF/TF breaks 80% of the games content, I don’t believe that is good practise.
Now the OP can say, “Looks I do more deeps then you and completed harder content then you even though you have a higher ilvl then me.”
Look at things on the bright side.
I haven’t met any new players in forever.
Perhaps that is because the game is very poorly designed for new players.
A bit of a scary prospect not having new players when the sub counts go down. Need something to plateau it again.
Actually it varies. WQ’s are between 350-360. Mythic dungeon quests are 370. Emissaries are 385. But they scale to those values (aside from the Mythic dungeon quests when they come up). Each specific item is generally only going to be 5-10 ilvl higher than the characters average ilvl. So they do not break content, they progress people through it slowly. Going up 15 ilvl in a single slot only increases average ilvl by just over 1. That’s exactly the opposite of your claim.
Fair point, (however to note, I said “up to 370”) the only ones I’ve noticed are 370 but perhaps I only really look at the dungeon quests, which can be completed in any difficulty if I recall correctly. I can’t honestly say I check out WQs if the embassy isn’t worth it so the ones are see are generally what is limited to a single zone at a time.
I’m not sure how that is the exact opposite of my claim? I was simply responding to someone who said 400+ is all that matters.
Yes, the rewards scale. But you can still use just that content.
There is nothing stopping a person from spamming warfronts for a 400+ piece and a half dozen 355+ pieces, doing the arathi warfront for a 370+, killing the arathi world boss for potentially up to 2 x 370+, doing LFR for up to 11 x 370+ pieces (with extreme luck), downing the darkshore world boss for potentially up to 2 x 400+, and completing a few WQs with 360+ rewards to bring their embassies up to 385+.
Obviously the input can vary depending on person and how much time you decide to put in. But there are options to exceed 385 without participating in normal raids.
I will however still amend my original post to more clearly show that I was replying within the context of their original statement.
Your claim was the rewards break content because they’re so high. My point was they don’t, they progress people through ilvls to where Blizzard wants us to be over time. Thus they don’t break anything. They do exactly what they were designed to do.
And yes there is something stopping people from spamming warfronts. 1, they’re not up all the time. 2, only darkshore rewards 400 once and 355’s upon completion, arathi reward 370 and 340’s (which is lower than heroic dungeons). Hell even Darkshore is only the same ilvl as heroic dungeons. 3, they have required ilvl’s to queue for them in the first place which match corresponding content that also drops 355 gear. I couldn’t do Darkshore until I hit 335 on my rogue yesterday.
Can someone get to higher than 385 ilvl without doing non-queueable group content? Yes. It takes about ~2 months worth of time to do so, or at least it did on multiple of my alts that I do only that content with. And with bad luck that can take a lot longer. Emissaries reward 385 but aren’t reliable. They can easily award the same slot over and over again. And to get to 385 you have to already be like 378 or so at least for Azerite gear. I don’t think it works that way for other slots. I’m not entirely certain what the thresholds are but I know it doesn’t award 385 azerite at 375. But again, I don’t see that as a problem while you do. Clearly Blizzard doesn’t either or it wouldn’t be possible.
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