10.1.5 Demonology - But why?

Developers’ note: We’re working to reduce the peaks and valleys of Demonology’s throughput by depowering Call Dreadstalkers. This will allow us to compensate by increasing the throughput of Demonology’s other rotational spells. We hope to have those tuning adjustments soon.
Lastly, the Demonic Core economy has been too generous in Dragonflight. We want to return Demonology to a place where Shadow Bolt is frequently cast, Demonbolt damage feels impactful, and the number of instant casts available is a bit more limited.

Can we get more context as to why these changes are being made? The developers are making the statement that they want to change the feel of the spec. But why do they feel that these changes are needed? What inputs are they using to determing that the live iteration of demonology needs to be updated?

The current iteration of Demonology is fun to play. The 90 second cycle enabled by the tier set allows for a good flow of gameplay in M+ where you are always planning and prepaing to have your cooldowns up for the next pack, and in raids where you know that another cooldown cycle is coming.

Reducing the number of demonic core procs will make the spec more awakard to play by disconnecting Grimore: Felguard from Demonic Tryant. If the issue is the amount of damage that this combo is doing, then the damage itself should be tuned via the damage of spells, not by breaking the synergy between the two spells. Being required to delay the use of Demonic Tyrant to line up with Grimore: Felguard (or casting them standalone) will just desynchronize the spec and make it feel worse to play. If the issue is the # of instant casts, then the 2pc bonus should be buffed to maintain the synergy between the two spells.

Shadow Bolt being prioritized and frequenly cast is not an exciting change for the spec. Outside of any shard generation, it is not an exicting spell to cast. It hits for basically next to nothing and turreting it seems like it will just make this spec feel like a worse destro warlock in terms of feel.

I understand the comment about ‘peaks and valleys’. It isn’t great to go into a pack or boss in M+ without cooldowns up and be less impactful than the tank, but this is currently mitigated by the knowledge that those cooldowns will be back up shortly – and when they are up, the peaks are great. Dropping the ramp and burst on a pull and seeing a huge peak is fun, dropping it mid fight and seeing the impacts and increased throughput is fun. What inputs are you using that are telling you that burst windows aren’t a fun way for a spec to produce its output?

Without additional context, this really feels like an example of “It isn’t broken, but we’re going to fix it anyway.”. I know posting here is basically dropping this feedback into the void, but in the off chance a developer sees this, please reconsider these changes.


I agree, these changes are terrible and not needed.


To quote a famous internet person: “WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!?”


Worst part is forcing stupid awful maintenance talents like fel covenant. And leaving stolen power/umbral braze/awful rng proc rate pact of imp mother/kazzak curse as is.


It’s never felt more over for warlock. After the constant changes for all 3 specs, we’re launched into another mess in .15. This is a fantastic way to lose even more sub numbers.


They no warlock developer and Ion hates how Demo locks are doing better this season than the previous season.

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Blizzard- We made a bunch of swirlies on the ground. We need you to lose up time by hard casting, that way melee will be meta.


I remember I was spamming shadow bolts during TBC, because it was TBC. The bosses didn’t require this much movement.
There are only a few bosses in Aberrus that require less of it. On top of that, mythic difficulty is just punishing, you just cannot ignore some mechanics like in hcs. So, they either need to stop this shadowbolt madness, or design the damned bosses with less movement.
Some may say, play affli, yes, and it is awful right now, maybe it will be good with the patch, buuutt I do not want to track a bazillion of debuffs. It is not fun, just tiring. IMO


they do tank dps outside of burst windows. i think the reason why is quite obvious.

Best part is these changes still have Demo doing sub tank damage outside of Tyrant and Tyrant/nether windows, and sub tank damage about 60 percent of the time in mplus outside of said windows.

Yeah Kalamazi already stated the “supposed rework” did nothing for either our peaks or our valleys still the damn same. Just no more 3rd dogs and alot of boring passives.


not too surprising this team isnt good at designing ranged specs and it kinda shows tbh


yah for a spec based on pet damage taking away pet damage and making us hard cast more doesnt sound very intuitive. looks like our last hope is destro.


This spec was literally the only thing keeping me playing this game. I have zero interest in the new direction that they want to take the spec. It does not sound interesting or entertaining. These changes go through and I will leave the game. Game is boring.


Agreed they obliterated demonology with the recent .1 patch it feels like they want us gone

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Just want to touch on this real fast.

This isn’t a “bit” more limited. This is forcing me to stand in the fire or else not contribute damage.

Demonic Core didn’t break my gameplay, it allowed me to participate.


cause devs hate warlocks, they keep nerfing the class even when we arent meta, but they refuse to nerf or change PI.


laughs in Windwalker

#1 - Affliction is fine, no problem there.
#2 - Destro is fine, also no problem.
#3 - A change to one class’ specc is not enough for me nor anyone with common sense to unsub from a game because of THAT.
#4 - devs don’t just do the stereotypical “fun detected, must stop it”
mantra. they look at balance, rotation, class design and have MUCH more knowledge of all this behind the scenes than WE do. If the changes don’t work when 10.1.5 launches, they’ll readjust in hotfixes.


I have some Kool aid for you.