Not exactly new QoL. You just didn’t take it (and still not “great” since application isn’t smart).
And I must be misunderstanding your remarks about niche.
Sub eating Outlaw’s lunch in uncapped AoE doesn’t support your point about niche, just argues they’ve reversed.
I can’t even remember, when was the last time our core abilities felt good to press, like Mutilate or Envenom, even the great sound effects and its animation on those spells from classic are gone…
If you want the sounds back when pressed, you can actually replace the sound files with the old ones and its not against ToS. You just need to do a little bit of work, not much though to replace them
A 10%-14% chance to replicate is not nearly close to a 100% chance to replicate. The ability does not need to be smart. You’re a rogue. Literally just move around.
They clearly want Outlaws niche to be 5-8 target cleave. That’s a relatively new focus of theirs, and theres frankly no problem with that as its the typical M+ pull size.
I love how you continue to derail a pvp oriented thread, if you feel as strongly as you do make your own thread. “Why rogue is fine the way it is.” Talk about why it works from a pve stand point, and if it were to change how would you change it?
I would love to see rogues get a tank spec like Rift had, was so much fun. Sub actually reminds me a little of that spec from Rift. Deflection was the rogue version of block 
I would not be here if you guys did not provide commentary without any regard for how it would change rogues from a PvE standpoint. On top of that some of the changes being suggested here would not even help rogues in PvP. You want a different game, not just a different spec design.
Never have I watched someone go full circle in three posts.
A simple “Yo, I think this thread is incorrect” would’ve maybe done the trick.
The odd part, is there’s probably more in common with several people in this thread than you want to let on, and instead of coming to common ground, it’s been an adversarial approach from the first post.
The context is in the very paragraph you quoted. There is no circle, just a refusal from you to understand what im saying.
Sub used to be a single target funnel spec, where it did little aoe and cleave. It now has the capability to talent into aoe and while its cleave still isnt the best, there is an option for that as well.
Outlaw used to be able to do quite literally everything, single target, cleave, aoe. Thats been dialed back to where its exceptional at cleave and still keeps its strong single target. Its not going to beat Sub when its talented into aoe but its also never going to lose in a smaller target count cleave fight.
A rogue should have the upper hand against any class in pvp 1v1. We should be real assassins, any spec (combat/outlaw least so).
That said, rogues should be vulnerable in team fights more than any class.
What’s being overlooked is that as a proactive rogue in a team fight, a good enemy team consistently targets the rogue should they pop out, forcing a quick vanish. (We only have a couple in a single encounter) making us much less effective than other classes when focused. We need the damage to maximize our limited time actually engaged in fighting.
In a wall of team aoe damage, after smokebomb and vanish, we’re done for a few minutes unless it’s worth the death, distracting the enemy backlines, allowing our team to gain advantage. (Like in a good SR battle to start WG or EoTS flag fighting.)
A more careful, passive rogue should be off doing “rogue things”, and in the rare encounter you actually get a 1v1, a rogue should… ya know… assassinate people, anyone, given fairly equal gear/skill.
Nowadays, gl with that. It’s pitiful how useless I feel as a (sub) rogue in a 1v1. “The game isn’t based off 1v1”. Except for a rogue it should be.
Maybe there’s a mutual refusal to seek common ground then.
Be willing to take the first step.
I don’t see how wanting to play a previous version of Subtlety from 4 xpacs ago is wanting a different game. Still gonna be setting up to kill in stun windows, we just won’t need to rely on cd stacking to score kills like we do now. Making find weakness the vehicle in which we do damage, just as it was in the past. Though apparently wanting that is asking Blizzard to make an entire new IP.
How can you chime in about pvp and what it should feel like when you have little to no pvp experience. Maybe if you played that part of the game you’d know what it should actually feel like, and wouldn’t continue posting horrid takes like these. How should you know what what sub should feel like in PVP when you have only 48 rounds played in shuffle stuck at 1300, as sin on top of all of that.
So anyways, as we were fighting the boss, I saw the outlaw rogue in my group shaking the yahtzee cup over and over, atleast 5 times, and he was still utterly useless because none of the dice matched, so he just stood there, menacingly, acting all important and shizz.
CHH CHH CHH, the sound of the dice rumble as the cup swirls around the dude’s hand. And then he tosses the die, and they land on the ground. The moment of judgement.
BANG BANG BANG, wow! three actually matched. But then… NO! The last die didn’t match, and the outlaw rogue started smashing his desk angrily, yelling like a drunkard and nobody really understood what he was saying over the blizzard voice chat. If anything, the poor dude sounded like an enraged ape, and we just stood there, speechless.
Good luck getting the same results without also reverting the other specs back to their previous forms and simultaneously dealing with the reduced CC durations.
I said i don’t play PvP, not that I’ve never played PvP. And i gave no thoughts on what PvP should feel like. My thoughts were PvE based unless i said otherwise. I never claimed to have a PvP fix, i just know what is being suggested here would not help and would hurt Sub in every other form of content. It’d be cool if i didnt have the repeat the same stuff multiple times. Maybe if you read what i said youd actually be able to attack the argument and not what I’ve been playing the last 6 months.
Those cc nerfs just shouldn’t go live, just another way to alienate competitive pvpers from wanting to play in an already historically deflated expansion. They already have to artificially add mmr to other brackets because nobody is playing, I’m curious to see how things play out in s2.
All that matters in this meta is micro cc like step kicking into gouge, and HUGE damage. Nerfing CC and crit damage will only slow the game down to a crawling pace, prolinging the game out into a meters match.
That being said of course old rogue would be meh with cc nerfs, can’t even blind sap. The only thing they can do to fix that problem is to implement a knee-jerky damage buff, doing so will only put us in the same boat.
World of Warcraft PvP is finding the perfect flow of ccing, positioning, communication, and damage. Removing and dumbing down CC just turns pvp into pve damage race. The cc nerfs address nothing because other classes can already win the game off not ccing. Even rmp hasn’t historically been playing the way an rmp should, just kidney off dr and maybe you will win because assa rot lul.
I would like to know more.
Even as Outlaw, it’s hard to pick your fights when every fight seems like a quick loss from your vantage point in a bush.
To make it easier, you can:
Yooooo sub rogues gutted like a blue fin tuna on a deep sea fishing charter. Gotta love it<3