So general Discussion what did we learn today?
We learned that never question Tovi’s tauren lore cause she’ll rip you apart
What gets me is more that how did the Horde Council not send anyone to gather intelligence for them since the expedition to the Dragon Isles was approved. I get that the Horde doesn’t have their own version of SI7, but rule #1 of statecraft is gathering intelligence to, at the least, have some idea of what’s going on. Baine should at least be aware that the centaur of the plains had a civil war, even if he doesn’t know the individual tribes or who’s on what side (though it wouldn’t be surprising if he had been made aware of who’s who). He went into this completely ignorant of the situation and the area, which made his decisions to go it alone even more baffling. He should have at least had Mayla and one horde NPC with accompany him on the journey.
But that is the thing, he wasn’t completely ignorant, he knew at the very least that the Champion (player character) worked with the centaur he was outside their town of, since when you first speak to him he asks the player to talk to the centaur to see if they know anything about the missing Tauren because ‘you have an existing relationship with the centaur’
So he knows something about whats happened there, at the very least he knows the Champion has worked with them and would vouch for them (and later he says about how he’s giving the Maruuk scout another chance because the Champion vouches for them)
Even if he doesn’t know the green dragons also vouch for them, the fact the player Champion who has personally helped him a number of times (my last post) does, should give them enough benefit of the doubt to not have instant rage on them.
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That’s blizzard in a nutshell
Vague allusions are just that, though. Baine asks Tomul to tell him “everything” about a third into the questline. Meaning he has zero knowledge of the situation. My first thought when I saw that was “don’t you have anyone gathering actual intelligence for you?”. It makes Baine look ill-prepared, and his outbursts (which, again, are not befitting the equivalent of a head of state) does not help matters.
The level of scrutiny is high on this because a racial leader and member of the Horde council is involved. If it had been random guy or someone without a title or high position, I could probably let some of this stuff slide.
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It actually would have made 10x more sense for some random tauren to be herp derp mad at the centaur. Use a tauren with gray fur so it looks like he was there with Cairne.
But they have always shown Baine with a cool head (no spine imo) so for him to act this way was kind of out of character. Acting stupid is normal but getting irrationally angry wasn’t.
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That feels like it would really improve it if they did have another Tauren accompany him such as the described possibly grey fur Cairne era one to have the outburst, then Baine could step in with a ‘hold your anger, the Champion vouches for these centaur so we should give them the benefit of the doubt’ moment that would be more in line with his character they have shown us throughout WoW.
Yes it would potentially be more of the ‘spineless’ from him, but they could bring that back by having the part after he finds his friend later changed to him going on a rampage specifically on the renegade centaur for vengeance, anger and grief.
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I just dislike him a lot but this idea would have made the storyline sooo much better.
I would only be complaining about my hatred of Baine and not the story.
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I’m not sure why people are so opposed to this angle for Baine. Do people not know what trauma is? Just because he was able to hold it together for when his father died (happened when he was an adult) doesn’t mean he is going to when facing a group that slaughtered his people to near extinction (happened when he was a child).
Trauma doesn’t just go away.
He had less anger at the man who killed his father, and the woman who commited war crimes he violently disagreed with to the point he killed Horde members to rescue an Alliance prisoner from, then he shows for a random centaur on another continent that was sealed away for 10,000 years, so obviously were not tied in any way to the ones in Kalimdor, who the person who personally rescued him from death twice vouches for.
This centaur group he specifically says the player has relations with when first talked to, before his outburst for them simply existing and coming to help after he asked the player to speak to them for help.
And again Grimtotem exist, he knows full well not every group of a species is as good or bad as the others, and this group that was sealed away 10,000 years ago that the Champion personally vouches for, is the one that he decides to rage on when one shows up to help after he asked the player to ask them for help.
There is Trauma, and then there is just plain stupid, this would would certainly be the latter.
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It’s not that he shows emotion, it’s what triggers emotion and when he decides to display it.
He doesn’t up for the second Siege of Orgrimmar because his heart was broken. That has to be the lamest, dumbest excuse to abandon your people during a war. And he doesn’t care about other people’s trauma or he wouldn’t have called Camp T a valid military target. Whether or not you want to say it was, that doesn’t make his words to his own people any less hurtful.
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Iroh quit fighting when he found out his son died. It took time before he came back with the White Lotus and the Avatar to finally stop the fire nation. Not saying Baine is Iroh in any regard, but the disconnect where people are trying to use rationale in irrational situations is silly.
I guess the way I see it is if I have arachnophobia on one continent I am going to have arachnophobia on another continent.
I don’t remember who Iroh is but anyways, Baine is a leader of the Horde and leader of the tauren. You don’t get to call in sick the day your people are involved in a civil war.
There was no excuse for them to write Baine in that light.
Magatha killed his father. She killed his people when she sacked Bloodhoof and Thunder Bluff. She caused just as much trauma as the centaur.
He lets her go with a pat on the head, which allows her to gather strength for another go. Why not pat the centaur on the head too?
His timing for showing “trauma” is horrid.
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Iroh was the General of the Fire Nation in Avatar the Last Airbender who was leading a war of conquest to take over every other nation.
Iroh’s story is one of the best written in a series, and again not saying WoWs writing is anywhere near it, but the fact he lost a family member like Baine did is a likely reason to have given up. It has happened in numerous times in history as well.
Notable Samurai killed themselves after finding out their heir died in battle, for example. You’re saying it isn’t an excuse when you are trying to apply a logical response to a situation that isn’t normal. If you got kicked in the face and I responded with “Ah dude, walk it off, you’ll be okay.” That isn’t a normal response…
I think the difference is when both of those events happened. He was a child when his people were being slaughtered by the Centaur. He was a warrior when the civil war broke out between the Grimtotem and the Tauren. I don’t know about patting Magatha on her head, but he exiled her perhaps since enough Tauren blood had been shed.
Your pivot to the most simple direction isn’t indicative of understanding how people react in situations of that nature. There are other avenues than the most simplest one.
I’m not disagreeing with this, but I am saying the players reasoning for “Well he should just…” isn’t a good response either.
No offense but I don’t care what happens in The Last Airbender. As far as I know, they had nothing to do with the writing in WoW.
I do know that if I was watching a show and I seen a leader call in sick the day of a civil war, I would shut it off and not watch any more of it.
This makes no sense. You remember less trauma as a child because your brain is less developed. I literally drowned as a child and my dad, who was luckily a Navy corpsman, had to pull me out of the pool and give me CPR. The older I got, the less I thought about that trauma, and it’s to the point I remember it happened but it’s not as clear as it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago. If I would have almost drowned now, to the point where I was given CPR again, it would have been a bigger impact because it would have been the second time it happened.
So since the trauma that happened when he was a child and the trauma that happened as an adult was almost the same (only the enemies are different), meant that he should have been more enraged with Magatha.
And it’s fine if he doesn’t want to spill more tauren blood. All he had to do was spill her blood and exile the Grimtotem that refused to join the Horde. That would have left them leaderless for along time.
Why not? If Blizzard isn’t going to write a good story, then we’re going to complain.
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And he has been show as the character to be level headed and calm, often to the point of non-action for the entire history of his character, through multiple trauma’s, and forgiving of a alot of bad actions (alliance killings of Tauren, people who killed his father, warcrimes he violently disagreed with, Magatha killing his people, etc…) for his entire history.
Then to suddenly about face his entire shown history at a random member of group the person who has saved his life personally multiple times vouches for, that he asked that person to speak to for help, that was sealed away for 10,000 years and obviously not part of the same centaur (see Grimtotem that have killed his people multiple times that he is well aware of and forgiven multiple times) is completely off character and completely ill timed
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Well at the moment we’ll just have to disagree. I’ve worked with people who have had major trauma and the way you two are going on about it as a 2+2 = 4 is kind of insulting to people with trauma.
“You’re depressed? Have you tried not?” 
I have not said or implied that one time and it makes me think you’re either not reading or understanding my replies.
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On a side note but still related to Baine (as a member of the Horde council/seeming head speaker of), the Horde and Centaurs. This questline makes me seriously wonder how things are going/will go with the Desolace united Centaur that the Horde gave their blessing to, ala from chronicles 3, page 119:
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Speak for yourself. Baine’s acted in service of the Horde, not the mad leaders that have a tendency to crop up in the now-defunct Warchief position.