Baine acted in service of the Alliance, always has. He’s garbage and an embarrassment to his father, his people, and the Horde.
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Remember when Baine suggested surrendering to the Alliance at the funeral of the king of a horde ally…that the Alliance assassinated?
No, he just hasn’t decided to go smashing headlong into the Alliance war machine. Again. He’s consistently been on the side of preserving as many lives as possible and keeping the peace.
Deciding to toss Grunts into the meat-grinder for memes and banner phrases is not leadership that serves the Horde.
You mean negotiating with an opponent in a superior position? Considering the Alliance and Horde actions just upset an entire nation, calling for tensions to cool down was not a bad play. Even if just for as cynical a reason to buy time for forces the marshal, deciding to lunge into the jaws right after Rastakhan would be the height of stupidity.
No. I mean surrendering.
If you are negotiating with an opponent in a superior position, with the goal of ending a war. You are surrendering.
You will make concessions that are inline with surrendering.
If you do it AT THE FUNERAL of a leader that was just assassinated by the enemy…and suggest it to the leader’s daughter. You are an idiot.
He could have just said nothing at the funeral, and suggested cooling tensions. But no. He wanted to surrender and to bring it up at the funeral of the person the Alliance assassinated.
Only Alliance lives. When Sylvanas massacred Tauren he went along and said “for the Horde”.
How could we ever forget Taurajo, the single worst massacre that ever occurred in this game. Never forget the seventeen quintillion Tauren that died that day. Rest in spaghetti, never forgetti.
He was having to counterbalance the devil on her shoulder; Nathanos was all but calling for her to march her troops as deep into Kul Tiras as they could reach, and considering the Alliance was in a better position, yes, he had to talk them down and start putting forward the idea of negotiation. Nathanos was using the funeral as much as Baine was, but Baine’s plan wasn’t at all cataclysmic like Nathanos’s bloodbath would have been.
So Baine was just as horrible as Nathanos.
Thank you for agreeing that Baine was a horrible person.
Baine just wanted the Horde to surrender and enter into a period of servitude to the Alliance. Because that is the only possible outcome to surrendering within this context.
Baine’s plan results in an armstice and a reduction of conflict. Nathanos’s plan obliterates what’s left of the Horde. The two were not equal in any way, though it is admittedly bad form to bring up politics at such an event in general. That said, the Horde as a whole was using the funeral as a stunt to try and galvanize the Zandalari instead of letting them have a period of mourning.
Thats not how wars work.
In full context, the Horde destroyed the Night Elven city, unprovoked. You dont get to do that, then from a position of weakness say “hey guys. lets just have a truce. we good, ok?”
Major concessions would have to be made, to the point that the Horde would become a vassal of the Alliance. There is no other realistic (outside of horrible writing) reason to think otherwise.
The only thing you can offer for “truce” when you are the “bad guy” and you just got your butt kicked…is to surrender.
It was 13 posts down dude. I know scrolling your mouse that much is hard.
Yep. Its their thing.
I liked the new angrier maflurion we saw in BFA. for all of 2 minutes in the cut scene video and say 10 minutes of the darkshore scenario.
okay…so him and Illidan might actually be brothers since he most of the time didn’t act like it, cool. He would have made his brother proud really.
and then he vanishes till Df for a swap. I wanted to see angry malfurion way more really.
You forget we essentially ‘traded’ Undercity for Teldrassil. Rightfully balanced? No, but nothing really would be since both slaughters were engineered by the same person.
Also, having gone back and re-read the dialogue in the quest ('cause BFA was a forever ago), Baine doesn’t even bring up the idea of negotiations until there are reports that the Alliance is beginning to close in on every front. At this point, an overwhelming force is closing in on every side and the only winning play here that doesn’t guarantee more death is to parley and try to negotiate for the best peace you can get. Baine didn’t know about Derek and didn’t know about Nazjatar, so he couldn’t think with that in mind, and both plans would have been revolting to him since one undermines the entire point of being Forsaken and the other sees the Warchief slaughtering her own soldiers.
Wait, how did that happen?
Didn’t Anduin say before they did Siege of Orgrimmar 2.0 that there wasn’t enough troops? What happened between the Zandalari king dying and the Siege that suddenly made the Horde way bigger than the Alliance?
So is the Alliance gonna be like “ok, we forgive you for burning our tree because you blew up your own city, we good now”?
Yes. Thats called surrendering.
Baine didn’t do anything when Sylvanas slaughtered Tauren at the Battle of Undercity. I believe he even huffed out a “For the Horde”.
Baine put his neck out on the line when Alliance soldiers/civilians were in danger.
Yeah we see skeleton tauren running around, Anduin is like “omg she’s killing them dude!” and all Baine does is go “waaaaaah we left Saurfang behind!”
The thing you’re missing is that if you’re the head of state and representative of your people, you don’t get to…I don’t want to say “hide”, but let’s just say you have to be present regardless of arachnophobia or not. To reiterate something I mentioned earlier, this is why heads of state making idiots out of themselves abroad is heavily frowned upon in real life. Regardless of traumas, misgivings or biases, when you’re a leader there’s things that are expected of you.
To sum my criticism, Baine should have been written with his role as the leader of the tauren and a member of the Horde Council in mind. Not as random guy.
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Uh… you realise that the humans never killed any civilians and even cleared a path to let civilians out of the camp… the Tauren just ran into the Quillboars, who killed them.
Uh… you do realize they did kill civilians and you get a quest from Vengeance Point to put those civilians spirits to rest. I just linked a picture of it above.
Omusa was a flight master.
Yonada was a trade skill vendor.
Dranh taught skinning.
Krulmoo taught leather working.
Saurfang’s resistance teamed up with the Alliance, The darkmoon army of vengfull god powered nightelves rallied, and the Proudmoors got rid of Lady Ashvane to have a unified Kul’tiras on the Alliance’s side.