He was pretty much wow’s version of a certain someone. Orcs over all… 
Good screw Baine, maybe now he can be replaced with someone that has a spine.
I think you see that in a lot of their leaders. Sylvanas for the Forsaken until they crapped all over her character, Lor’themar for the Blood Elves, Garrosh for the Orcs, etc etc…
Fighting for your people to live is one thing, fighting for them to conquer everyone else is another.
Something having a reason, and doing the obvious thing of asking before just taking since that would take less effort, does not prove honor.
See the mana bombing of theramore, that the only reason there wasn’t an entire city full of civilians was because they managed to get Kiron Tor help at the last minute to portal people out (Jaina book), the shunning and secret behind the scenes killing of non-orc races in the Horde, including the Tauren, Trolls and Undead (War Trials book)
And yeah basically almost everything in the War Trials book.
Now that you’re saying it… true. Good old Gally didn’t care for others either.
Well, the name of the faction is “Horde”, not “Alliance”… seems fitting xD
He did commit war crimes, this is true. I’m not saying he finished strong. I am saying he was honorable and he did start the war for the sake of his people in the beginning.
The Horde is a culminative group of people fighting for similar reasons that brought them together.
The Forsaken feared what would happen if peace did come and the Horde viewed their ways as dangerous since they wanted to add to their population… and there was only one way to do that.
Everyone was in it for themselves, but worked together mostly because the Alliance would annihilate them if they were on their own.
Is that the same for harpies, lol.
Would they, though?
All the Orcs did since their arrival was to conquer Alliance territory. Night elves suffered the most of course. It was not the Alliance, who attacked first.
Undead should have been their own faction. Most of them are straight up evil, sorry.^^
Goblins are pretty much neutral. You already see them in Stormwind, Ironforge and Kul Tiras. They go where the money is.
Would the Alliance have annihilated them if they didn’t work together? Yes. The Humans defeat the Orcs by themselves. You can imagine once the Night Elves finished with the Demons and realized the Orcs had their hand in it, that the combined might of the original 4 Alliance races wouldn’t steam roll them each? Most certainly.
The Orcs couldn’t defeat the Gnomes and Dwarves nor make much headway into Dun Morogh.
What I meant was, that there wasn’t a reason for the Alliance to do so, if it weren’t for the Orcs.
Oh yea, for sure. But, here we are. xD
Good point xD
Possibly, I feel I need to agree to disagree there though. They had Goblin Zepplins, and basically the entire continent of Kalimdor minus a few northern parts to draw from, if they needed trees, Feralas has plenty, if they needed crops Feralas, Mulgore and Ungoru are not barren.
Also pre-destroyed Tirisfal, which while far away, they had Zepplins (and do undead need food? That is one thing I need to look up as I don’t actually know, if not then all the more for the Kalimdor Horde races).
So we take the time to make friends with the Centaurs only to have a leader of the horde come in all angry?
Why didn’t Baine get angry when Magatha Grimtotem become one of our mission follower people?
I really hate lazy bad writing.
Granted there might have been other avenues to take, but I’d wager some are more feasible than others. Nonetheless, his reasons starting out were for his people. I, as someone who plays Alliance, can at least say that.
In my head-canon Baine died right after Saurfang. When Saurfang died, he stepped in an said “I challenge you as well!” and proceeded to die in the exact same way. He is dead to me. I don’t know who this new “Baine” cow is, and no longer care.
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Zandalari becoming Horde members felt just as weird or look at the nightborne… the mecha gnomes, LFD and HMT… the list goes on. Quality writing right here. xD
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I think the scale of these attacks need to be addressed.
Centaur almost wiped out ALL Tauren. Forced them to change their lifestyle and settle in Mulgore to survive. I would say the almost extermination of your race is bigger than losing an outpost.
Alliance destroyed Camp T so Baine built a wall. If you want to look at revenge, Baine got it when he marched against & destroyed Northwatch Hold and later Theramore.
Baine doesnt blindly trust humans - he remembers those who he could trust when so called allies could not be counted on in his time of need:
Hamuul informs the young chieftain that their potential allies are few, with Garrosh’s allegiances unclear, the Forsaken being unable to help (as orcs loyal to Garrosh patrol the Undercity thanks to past events), the blood elves being too far away, and the Darkspear trolls being too few. Realizing he could not call upon friends, Baine decides to ask aid from an honorable enemy: Jaina Proudmoore.
While there, Baine unexpectedly meets Prince Anduin Wrynn, heir to the throne of Stormwind; after an initial uneasiness, Baine warms to the young man, so unlike his warrior father, King Varian. His sadness and churning emotions at all that has transpired cause great empathy in Anduin; in an act of friendship, he gave Baine the great hammer Fearbreaker, an ancient Bronzebeard heirloom given to him by King Magni Bronzebeard. The weapon “likes” Baine and steadies him with the Light that it wields, and he promises to treasure it always. Jaina is moved by this gesture and agrees to provide Baine monetary support in his efforts to bring down Magatha and the Grimtotems.
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My post wasn’t about revenge, it was about how Baine likes to pick and choose which enemies he’s going to warm up to.
It wasn’t just Camp Taurajo. You have to look at the entire history the Horde has had with the Alliance before DF. It’s so back and forth that Baine has less reason to trust them than centaurs that had nothing to do with almost wiping out his people.
Even his BFF Jaina has threatened the Horde, which is threatening him too. And I’m not arguing whether or not Jaina is justified in threatening us, that’s a whole other debate. This is about Baine and how Blizzard cannot seem to stop themselves from making him look stupid and spineless.
To me, Blizz just cant write Tauren and Night Elves. Scratch that. They can write humans, Scourge-like Forsaken and Orcs. Everyone else is just there and changes as the story requires
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