I definitely wouldn’t mind seeing M+ shift to a scoring system that is more like what Torghast uses, where time isn’t everything. It could be neat if, say, doing weird stuff in a dungeon earned you more points.
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Is this where you’re still conveniently pretending that raids don’t have timers?
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No, but you don’t need to incentivize speed running.
There have been “speed clears” of raids since vanilla and there was no in-game reward system encouraging it.
Turns out, given our time is a limited resource, that speed/efficiency is its own reward.
Please don’t pretend all new players are inept. Most people playing video games in 2022 would see what is intended to be a challenge and look for advise/help/guides when they need it. m+ is extremely accessible. You start at the bottom, m0, then work your way up through gradually increasing difficulty and if you so choose, can stop going higher at a point that you are comfortable.
Only really trash players fail at it, put no effort in, and then beg the devs to remove it from the game.
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i have always pointed out two things:
- how self-destructive blizzard is with their design.
- how much, MUCH worse the playerbase is at wanting elitism over the health of the game.
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The timer is the challenge. It was also the challenge in challenge mode dungeons as we had to run them in a certain time limit in order to make score.
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I will say that they are. The affixes can be out geared so the timer is the only constant in the challenges. Cannot out gear the timer.
He literally asked for the timer to be removed in m+
Without a timer, there’s no reason to not run double healer comp, as just about every soft enrage has been removed from dungeons as they scale poorly/unfairly. The only true enrage is the timer.
If DPS is low you should fail, just as you should fail a raid boss if you lack DPS.
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The timer is an arbitrary thing it doesn’t give you better gear just a chance for more of it. Taking the timer away from m+ and moving it to a cosmetic fueled challenge mode harms no one. You still have to be able to complete the dungeon in a high key mythic+ you just wouldn’t have to worry about the timer. So saying you check completion you are still getting the gear from the dungeon and the great vault so you don’t actually need the timer for anything but an arbitrary point total. You could easily have gold, silver, and bronze in challenge mode again for mounts and transmog rewards.
Just keep M+ the way it is, and add challenge modes.
There are dungeon modes that aren’t timed and timing M+ keys isn’t a requirement. Just get a group of casuals together and wait for lust to come up for every pull if you’re not worried about time.
The timer is not a requirement.
I’ll let you ponder the why this statement is nonsensical.
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Do you get better gear for completing in time or more of it?
Yes, because you get more of it… How is this hard to follow for you?
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Do you rely want double healer comp to be a thing? I remember double healer comp in Burning Crusade heroics because there were no DPS checks so why not run two healers?
That’s why it is bad. Complete groups playing high keys relative to their skill and compensating with two healers sounds horrid.
no, but what i think this would do is take the focus off what the top 1% is doing and running to open it up for more to actually get invited to run dungeons again.
Nah, don’t remove the timer, gotta have something to work towards in this game that gives you something nice that not everyone else can get. Sure they could bring back CM sets, but at a base model, then you gotta complete +20’s or something to get the upgraded look of the set. But if they did that people would just complain more about it anyway and say it’s to hard.
I think most people would like to do M+ but having a timer makes it unnecessarily stressful.
You could easily remove the timer and just up the mob damage/HP. The only thing I really see that you would need to do is disable bloodlust so people wouldn’t try to cheese it that way.
What you are arguing is exactly what I said you are not getting a higher Ilvl piece of gear you are just getting a chance at more of the same ilvl from the timer. As for double healer comps if that’s how someone wants to play how does that affect you don’t play with them.
The problem will always remain whether there is a timer or not. Since WoW’s inception (and any game for that matter) players will try to mimic what the best players are doing. Removing the timers won’t stop pugs from demanding X class because some youtube tier list says so or it’s what the MDI players run. Joining a guild and playing with friends is the only real way to avoid those types of players.