The more we splinter the dying playerbase for arbitrary reasons, the better. amirite
you realize that they do, right?
yea?
no? what exactly do you think boss enrages are?
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Normal and heroic are irrelevant content, and mythic0 doesn’t have affixes or any kind of challenge
It’s really not the same thing as removing the timer
I would like more cosmetic rewards, honestly. While I’ve been enjoying the casual M+ I’m doing this patch, I miss CMs and consider them better in general.
Edit: part of me is still salty at Blizzard for removing class based tier sets with the excuse of adding in more variety of armor elsewhere in the game and then just not doing that.
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m+ challenge is vastly removed by removing timers.
no, you should not be able to hard cc four out of every group of mobs and slowly kill them one at a time, taking 2 hours to slowly crawl through the dungeon, for max level loot.
that not only sounds like an awful slogfest, but it’s not nearly as challenging as doing the entire dungeon within the timer.
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I was going to suggest something along these lines. Curious as to how difficult it would be to implement. I personally really like these options.
To those suggesting just to mark your dungeon as a completion run, I’ve personally seen enough people leave/dc from keys clearly marked as completion (with time left on timer) that it’s not even really any different than a standard run. In fact, I daresay the amount of people who leave completion runs is equivalent to a normal key run. It really seems to mean very little.
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It’s not the same thing. You don’t have to run an entire raid within a combined timer of all the encounters, both trash and bosses combined. You can take your time and execute each encounter properly rather than chaining them together to fit them in a specific window.
I have no problem with challenging timed content in the game, but I think it’s better as a side mode - like challenge modes were in MOP/WOD - rather than the primary way that people do group content in the game. I suspect I’m not alone in that preference, given WoW’s drastic decline over the years is due at least in part to Mythic+ design making dungeon content less accessible to the average player.
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10.0 Should remove mythic+ dungeons
FIFY
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The jerkiness is strong in this thread.
This is one of the dumbest takes on the WoW forums, which is saying a lot. Nothing was taken away with the addition of mythic + content, nothing. Which means it only added. It’s made content more accessible, because people who can’t devote hours every week to raiding still have an avenue to gear up.
I’m not sure how this is confusing. I’ve had bricked keys where we simply just… didn’t have enough DPS. It’s literally no different than hitting the hard enrage. In WoW, DPS are measured by how much damage they do in X amount of time. Time is an integral dimension in WoW.
And no, designing hard enrages on every single trash mob is absolutely not viable, especially when encounter lengths are so short. People already sperg out about the Elites in Torghast having a soft enrage, people would lose their minds if that was the design of WoW dungeons.
The same people who whine about timers also whined about Tyrannical Hakkar in S1. The truth is, most of these people just want free loot. It’s kind of cringe TBH.
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of course it’s not the same thing. raids aren’t dungeons. but they ARE timed, in their way, just like m+ dungeons are timed in theirs.
good news, you can ignore it. I have people on my raid team that barely do any m+ at all.
Primary way people do group content? I mean before m+ there was no small format group content that offered any sort of challenge and replayability. we were not spamming trivial mythic dungeons.
challenge modes were fine… until you completed them and then there was no point in doing them again unless you were doing sales.
m+ remains the single best thing they’ve added to the game. M+ for me solved the “I am so bored I’m flying in circles around my garrison fountain because there is literally nothing to do” problem. now there’s always something to do.
but I recognize that I very much enjoy m+, and someone who doesn’t like it might feel differently - the trap those people need to not fall into is thinking they HAVE to do it to chase the gear.
LOL WHAT?
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The problem with that is your key delevels, so there’s no progression like some people are looking for.
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Not only that, it’s done something Blizzard has been trying to do for a very long time: Keep 5-man content viable. If you look at every expansion prior to legion, it was raid or die. Now you can farm m+ And get gear almost as good as mythic raiding without having to raid at all!
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It’s called playing a softer key. If you are on M+15 and you want to relax, just do +9s. No need to plan routes, no need to chain pull, and get cosmetic or garbage rewards. It fits the description.
But you want better loots, so stay on +15s. The game cant reward you ilevel 278 loots for relaxed +9s.
Do you think m+ is accessible to somebody who just started playing WoW in 2022?
It’s incredibly complex and has created an unapproachable community that has an absurdly high standard for performance. There is a tremendous burden of knowledge to learn the entire dungeon before you step foot in it. People are unforgiving for any kind of mistake. You must have the rating from a higher level key in order for people to consider inviting you to their group. These are all like reading a textbook definition of an inaccessible game.
Mythic+ is the least accessible game mode ever added to the game, and has only become less accessible over time. Imagine if you were trying to get into raiding but the only difficulty was Mythic raiding… that’s what mythic+ dungeons are like right now!
Mythic+ speedrunning is fine for the people that enjoy it (like you and I, presumably) but it shouldn’t be the primary group experience. When faced with a wall to climb before they can start having any fun, casual players would rather just quit the game.
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All that drivel and you still didn’t even address the point. Nothing was removed when they added mythic +. The game isn’t any more inaccessible than it was before.
And yes, with minimum effort any new player can get into mythic + quickly. You can quite literally go into LFG and find all kinds of groups running lower keys, running for completion, etc…
Quite frankly you need to quit trying to draw analogies as each time you try they get more dumb. There are four levels of dungeon (normal, heroic, mythic, and mythic +). Your analogy only works if mythic + was the only way to get into a dungeon, which it isn’t.
What you’re really asking for is timed challenge modes to reward no player-power related gear while letting dungeons with no timers reward that instead?
How does this satisfy the age-old structure of RPGs where more difficult content gets better rewards?
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Oh I see, this is where we pretend that new players are all helpless, awful players incapable of understanding how m+ works and don’t know how to use Google in 2022
My bad, carry on.
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Are you suggesting timers are necessary for content to be challenging?