IMO, just do it, bring more things to do…there’s a lot of players that just do heroic and that’s it due to the next tier being locked around a fixed size, there’s players that don’t want to interact with 20+ players, they’ve a small group and they’re good with mechanics.
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It just feels weird to me to have a boss where 20 is substantially easier than 21+ right before a boss that is really easy with less than 15, followed by one where you really want 30.
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Why?
We’re gonna bring all 28 raiders to every fight no matter what. Some fights will be easier, some will be harder. Same as now on Heroic.
Even with flex mythic raiding you will have to bench some dps. You cant have 13 dps and only 3 healers or 5 healers with only 10 dps.
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We manage just fine on Heroic and we have plenty of folks who can switch between DPS & heals. Not an issue.
WE ALREADY DO THIS ON HEROIC, guys. It’s strange to me that people have this weird hangup about doing it on Mythic.
Mythic =/= heroic lmao
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Since I raid cutting edge mythic, and you don’t do Mythic at all, I think have an infinitely better idea of the differences and similarities between the two than you, thankyouverymuch.
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It’s not just difficulty scaling, but mechanic options.
Some of the mythic mechanics we’ve seen in the mythic era just wouldn’t work above or below certain raid sizes.
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Brewa is right on this one. It’s literally the same thing, or so extremely similar that it wouldn’t be a drastic change.
Flexing raid sizes from 10-30 is ideal, and if you need to adjust raid sizes, then you adjust raid sizes. But at least the option is there.
It really isn’t that hard to adjust a fight to scale damage and mechanics onto the field according to the player count in the raid. Especially if you design the fight properly.
30 swirlies for 30 people, 17 swirlies for 17.
They did just fine doing this through MoP. Removing it put a big damper on the raiding community and people quit because of it.
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So get rid of them and replace them with something else that is equally engaging but works with the system?
I’ve had CE several times and I can say that roster management is annoying. It’s not fun and having to bench people constantly just sucks. You can tell how disappointed people are when they’re forced to be set because we needed someone else.
Heck, I’d be okay with flexing 10-20 even.
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The removal of 10-man certainly killed raiding for me.
Bring back 10-man raids, and I’m tanking that sh**.
I’m in there like swimwear.
That’s still the dev team backing themselves into a corner. I’d be willing to wager that the set of mechanics that work well in a fixed 20 player group is larger than the set of mechanics that work well with a variable number of players between 10 and 30.
Half of the mechanics could easily scale depending on raid size. Instead of 20 adds spawn–1 for each player–17 spawn because that’s what you have.
Instead of needing 4 immunities at 20, you need 2 at 10.
It’s not exactly complicated. Now, what is complicated is making sure that the damage/healing required scales appropriately so that the fight doesn’t become significantly easier/harder at specific difficulties.
The only mechanics I could see it being an issue with are ones that “require” a lock gateway or a druid roar or something, but it’s reasonable to assume you’d have at least one druid or warlock even at 10.
Now take things that are not even multiples of the number of players.
Jaina intermission you need 2 groups, both have to be at least 7.
Halondrus gives you 3 bombs in P1 and 3 more in P2.
They have also said it’s reasonable to expect a 20 player group would be able to field 1 of each class, and this is not as reasonable to expect of a 10 player party. Try doing the current xymox without a warlock.
Lets see 10m raid…the issue is its hard to balance. 10m was always harder than 20/25m
Now lets look at classes requires for mythic raiding alone - warrior, DH, mage, monk, warlock, enh shaman - so that leaves 4 slots for other classes. Might be able to get away with not bringing an enh sham to bring it to 5. At the end of the day you are limited on what classes to bring and a lot of classes would probably be unwanted.
Hypothetical - lets say X required class vastly underperforms but the thing they provide is make or break to the raid. That means you have to make sure the classes you bring in the other slots make up for the underperforming class.
Overall as much as people want 10m raiding back it just doesn’t work from a logistics standpoint least from mythic raiding.
This. They’ve already proven that they struggle with balancing even with 20m in mind so nothing changes.
Balance for 10m as the base and scale/balance accordingly.
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They have to be at least 7 in order to keep from freezing. You could decrease that number with raid size.
You could also decrease the number of bombs. lol
All of this could be accounted for is the point. Is it more work? Absolutely. Would it be difficult to balance at first? Almost certainly. It could be done though.
About the classes… flex from 15-20. You can be reasonably expected to have most or all classes at 15 too. lol
The point remains that mechanics that are determined by x/players will scale differently than players-2. If you let mythic scale (even from 15-20), that’s 5x as much testing you need to do to avoid breakpoints.
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Why would they bring it up when they aren’t changing it. You might want to do research on why they removed it in the first place. But since you won’t I will try and sum it up for you so you can understand.
It was impossible to tune the raids to be even for 25/10 raids. 25 person raids were insanely easier in all aspects than 10 person raids. And yes I did both. SoO showed how unfair it was for 10 person. You had to have such a specific group and you couldn’t cheese anything like you could in 25.
For example Gorrosh fight. 25 everyone just stayed grouped up and never had to move out etc. except those assigned to kill those barrel throwers when they spawned. Then when you got pulled up, 25 had tons of interrupts and back ups just in case. 10 raids. HA. Once messes up auto wipe. Pretty much all fights were soooo much easier in 25.
So Blizzard admitted this also and simply said there is no way to tune the raids to be even for 25/10. Hence why only 1 20 person mythic raid. They will not be bringing back a 10/20 or 10/25 let alone even a flex version of mythic.
no
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