Post your 10man and 25man logs, you do not have the credibility to say anything about difficulty if you didn’t get both 13/13H.
Swap Council to 10 man I bet you get it within 10 pulls
This really isn’t the case because 25M can afford to have:
- a few weaker players since its easier to carry them
- non meta specs since its easy to cover all the buffs
With 10M you’ll end up needing a specific spec so the pool you recruit from ends up being very limited by that, even though you need less overall people. 25M has no issue taking say 2 or even 3 of a spec, which totally doesn’t work in 10M.
25M can even have like 29/30 people on the roster with no one player sitting too much. 10M even having 12 feels pretty bad.
So yeah stop repeating this myth.
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I mean world first raiders compared 10 and 25 man.
10 man was far easier.
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We have no way to know this tier since there are shared lockouts and that makes it literally impossible for the same groups to attempt 10 and 25 man.
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I mean we do know.
If you can’t beat it on 25 swap it to 10m for a free kill.
You can be in denial all you want but we all know 25m is harder, idk why it even matters that you’re doing the easier version?
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Sure that’s easier when you can cherry pick the 10 best from your 25 man.
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No you don’t need to stop it.
You just post a sign up rofl.
We couldn’t beat heroic nef on 25 so later we had like 11 sign ups and beat it on 10m a few days later in like 9 pulls.
The fight was a joke on 10m.
Idk why it’s so hard to admit 10m is flat out easier.
Even the firelands write up from the world first raiders who did BOTH said 10m was a joke.
If my guild did 10m we would of prolly full cleared week 1.
Because it’s not, some fights are harder on 10 man and some on 25 man which ends up over all a wash.
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Not true at all rofl.
This is pure cope.
I guess the write up from the world first is wrong too?
So someone who is obviously biased to claim 25 man is harder?
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How are they biased?
They had 10m world first AND 25m
They did both rofl.
Right so they took their 10 best into 10 mans after clearing 25 man and shockingly also cleared it.
Why is it surprising that a guild that can clear 25 man can get 10 people who can clear 10 man?
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It’s literally an in-depth full write-up boss to boss.
You’re just not going to accept anything for some reason facts don’t matter
The fact is blizzard went to 20 man because they admitted they couldn’t balance 10 and 25 mans and sometimes one or the other was easier.
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Both of your points are not applicable to Firelands and future raids, and I can prove this.
For cutting the edge iconic bosses, 25M cannot afford to have even one weak player on first kill. If you have participated in Lei-Shen progression you would know this. Method had 3 players left when Lei-Shen died while they did mechanics nearly perfectly. This means having even 1 underperforming dps or heal would have meant no hope to beat the soft-enrage timer. There are countless world-first where bosses died on the edge of enrage timer. This proves having even 1 weaker player is impossible. Your first point only applies to easier raids or easier bosses.
When it comes to buffs, everything past WoTLK will have all buffs covered in a proper 10m set-up.
Go ask liquid or echo or limit RLs and I can guarantee you they think 25M is tremendously harder
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First 4/7 in Firelands are easy on both, here’s the harder 3 bosses from that write up.
Baleroc the Gatekeeper
Our setup (Rakez wanted loot…)
Here’s the first boss with meaningful differences between the raid sizes. In 25 we ran with two tanks and four healers, careful torment + debuff positions, and an elaborate enrage plan. We just barely met the dps requirements for the fight. We saw most 10-man guilds doing it with one tank and two healers, so we figured we’d do that and have plenty of dps left over.
We had a few deaths with two healers (quite looked like four-healing in 25), and noticed that we actually had enough dps left over to do two bosses at the same time. We picked up a third healer, which completely trivialized the healing. After noticing no one was keeping up sunders we proceeded to loot the boss.
The main difference is that in 25-man you are short on dps and short on healing. You can’t really compromise from either – and if you do take five healers you need a hell of a plan for the enrage. In 10-man you can either run with three healers and only worry about dps, or run with two healers and only worry about healing. You also don’t need to worry about the debuff positions for Tormented too much, since there’s plenty of room to go around and only one crystal to soak.
Not only was this fight clearly easier in 10-man, it didn’t really even have the same feel to it. Somehow forcing three healers and about 5% more health on the boss would have done wonders.
Majordomo Staghelm
Our setup
What happens when your tank forgets to turn on AD on the first scorpion slash and dies? You proceed to one-shot the boss and collect loot of course!
The fight plays (or rather, you should play it) much like the 25-man version. You maximize time on the damage/healing buff by not taking damage, which means Majordomo spends most of his time leaping around in cat form. The notable gameplay difference is that only three Burning Orbs spawn. They are an absolute pain to deal when they spawn in multiple clusters in 25-man, which simply cannot happen with only three.
The biggest problem though is that the boss has way too little health. With a completely failed pull, we still beat the enrage by about a minute and a half. It also felt like a two healer fight, and we were running with three. In all honesty, the boss could use a good +25-30% hp buff.
The fight feels more similar to the 25-man version than Baleroc, but because the numbers are so ridiculously off, Majordomo has to take the cake for being the boss with the largest 10/25 gap. You really should be able to do the 10-man version rather easily even if you dropped one healer plus one dps and went 8-man. That’s just silly for the penultimate boss of a raid tier.
Ragnaros
Our setup
The dreaded Ragnaros. Without giving too much, the fight feels very much the same, as it should. On the surface it’s seems like nearly the same encounter, but under the hood you see some differences.
It’s unclear why, but for some reason the Magma Traps in p1 do less damage than in 25-man. Doesn’t seem like a big deal unless you’ve clocked hundreds of deaths in p1 to traps that are synced poorly with Hand or Wrath of Ragnaros. It really isn’t a huge issue even counting that, but immediately noticeable and rather peculiar. Maybe we’re just doing it wrong.
Phase two is pretty similar. Aoeing the Molten Elementals down is possible with a reasonable comp and spreading really shouldn’t be an issue with an acre of room to go around, and in all honesty should be about a million times easier than in 25. We like to blow stuff up though, so we just aoe’d through like in 25-man, with plenty of overkill.
Sons of Flame in the intermissions perform quite differently. They’re made out of paper in 10-man, but boy are they fast without proper control. Eight spawn in both raid sizes. In 25-man and in the first intermission in 10-man the Sons are completely controllable. The second intermission in 10-man however has the tanks tied up with the Scions, and some guys occupied with Blazing Heat, which means that you’ll have to figure some stuff out on the fly. Depending on the raid comp the difficulty can vary greatly with the spawn spots. If the Sons spawn in clusters, they’ll die to aoe instantly (really). But if they have a good spread, this portion can be more challenging than in 25-man.
Without going too much into detail on p3 and p4, there’s again a number problem. The boss has too little hp, and what’s a nerve-cracking dps race on 25 is a walk in the park in 10 that doesn’t even require Bloodlust/Heroism. Moreover, looking at the Dungeon Journal you could easily think that handling two meteors in 10-man should be equal to handling five meteors in 25-man – after all, they both occupy 20% of the raid. In practice it simply does not work this way. The boss has proportionally so much less hp in 10-man that it more than makes up for lost dps time. Anyone close to killing Ragnaros will know how big of a role this plays, and how everything else ultimately turns out to be meaningless
All that wall of text to agree with me…
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Not at all rofl.
The first 4/7 are easy on both, I never said they were equal.
The fights that matter are so much easier on 10m it’s a joke.
Which we have no way of knowing since they have never been attempted on 10 and 25 man by the same teams.