Real power progression is gone.
2 Likes
Exactly, if this is what blizzard wanted why waste our time making us gain 10 new levels then?? there was zero point.
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A few people on the forums can be very easily be wrong. It happens ALL the time. Something like 10% of people in the US believe the earth is flat, that doesnt make it true even if that is 10-20 million adults. They can very easily all be wrong.
I can tell you my exact damage at the end of BC and Wrath and I can also tell you the exact moment when I hit that breakpoint again. The only differences between then and now are that A. The raids are not open and B. there are rewards from going back and doing old content that you had no reason to do before.
I am sorry but you have ALWAYS been weaker at this point. The break point is getting a decent mythic0 set and once you have a legendary and some raid gear you will get exponentially stronger than you were. This happens EVERY EXPANSION. I am sorry, but thinking otherwise is factually incorrect.
You are less geared being item level 140 now then 130 at the end of BFA. “Level” is a meaningless number that only really affects mobs chance to hit and gives a very very small amount of stats, but pushes secondary stat breakpoints away.
MATH is the reason the game has to work this way. It just does
As a mage I cannot solo Mythic Legion raids like I should be able to now. BfA level 50 and 40+ ilvl difference now, it took over a minute longer than my faster kill on the first boss in Nighthold. That first of all should not happen and not only that, a minute extra is a long time for a mage because all our CDs are down, no self healing, etc. so I beat the boss my was starting to have health issues which means no way I will be able to really down much bosses because I will die easily.
This is the first expansion where as a Mage I can’t solo mythic raids 2 expansions earlier.
I am willing to bet anything that Blizzard went off the stats of corruption gear, azerite gear and the neck. Because in BfA I was clearing a lot more bosses in Mythic Nighthold then I can now at level 60 and ilvl of 168.
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Your explanation is flawed. Folks are not complaining about enemies relative to current level. They are complaining that enemies ten or more levels LOWER than our current level are still as strong, relative to our current level, as they were ten or more levels ago.
THAT is what should not be happening.
It absolutely is, at least for BFA content. That stuff is still scaling to us even at 51+ levels, when it should stop at 50.
I did a test the last couple days on BFA critters just to see if the scaling issue I found in beta is still going on; it is. BFA mobs are scaling up past their level cap of 50.
For the test i used My horde warlock still at 50, and my alliance 'lock that I am leveling up. Both are Affliction and started with similar gear.
The example mob I used was Broodmother Razora, an elite lizard in Tiragarde, as well as her surrounding normal lizards.
To my character at level 50, she had 26980 health, the normals had 5306. It took me around 24 seconds to drop her, and 10 seconds give or take for the normals.
When I brought my other character back at 56, Razora had 28963 health, the normals 5793. It took around the same time to take down both as before.
At 57, Raz had 29421 health, the normals 5885. At 58 Raz had 29764, the normals 5953.
I recall doing a similar test back in prepatch PTR with Legion critters; THEIR health stopped scaling at 45 like it should. BFA at least, is definitely off in that regard.
6 Likes
Still can’t solo legion mythic raids even though 15 levels above content. We are certainly weaker.
1 Like
And we definitely can’t solo a huge majority of what was a cakewalk going back as far as 8.2.
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Yes this is exactly the problem, intentional or not blizzard need to address this. If it wasn’t intentional can the please hurry the hell up and fix it.
If it was, can they please acknowledge it instead of the sly slipping in the game without a word they have done so far, and defend why they added such a stupid thing to their game?
Right now anything would be better than silence from them.
3 Likes
system after system, gating after gating, currency after currency, equip effect after equip effect
Since WoD, we’ve beaten Garrosh’s True Horde, Old Empowered Garrosh, the Iron Horde, the Fel Horde, the Burning, Archimonde, Xavius, Gul’dan, Kil’jaeden, 2 Titans, kinda sorta helped defeat Sargeras, depowered Sargeras Sword, killed each other, blew up a city, burned down a tree, beat Azshara and the Naga, killed off the Old Gods, died went to Hell and escaped…
BUT STILL
WE, WE arent any stronger! We havent learned any new abilities! We havent improved our techniques!
Piss Off Devs
5 Likes
You seem to be talking about raid bosses, which are always equal to your level. This was not the case before squishes, but has been the case in the past with power relative to raid bosses.
What’s unusual this time is that open world mobs that are now grey/10 levels below are harder to kill- that’s never been the case.
3 Likes
Yes correct!!
And the fact that multiple people reported this in beta and blizzard appeared to ignore it, with many people now complaining as evident in this thread, yet blizz remaining totally silent- not even a ‘yes we can see something is different with scaling let us get back to you’, makes it seem like it’s very deliberate and therefore unbelievably shady.
Means Ion lied when he said we would be able to do all the things we could before. Because Ion, before I could decimate world mobs 10 levels below me, now I can’t. Care to explain?
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All I know is that back in BFA, once I got to level 120 and went back to legion I could one shot the trash mobs with ease. Even the purple bosses died with a few hits.
Today I decided to go back to Zandalar with my max level 60 and wasn’t one shotting anything. They all took some time to kill. Even worse, the purple boss hit me hard and between him and the birds picking me up and dropping me I had to high tail it out of there or I would have died.
Something is definitely off with the tuning.
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I had that same experience when I returned to a BFA zone to work on some reputation. The level 50 trash mobs for the quest objectives I rolled through at 50 took about 3 times as long to kill at 60 with 165 iLvl. Anecdotally, I saw a level 50 killing the same mobs about 3 times faster than me.
It’s the math, but doesn’t affect all class / spec / covenant combinations the same. I think they don’t have the resources to adequately tune the numerous overlapping player power systems. I can totally see why they delayed release, and can easily see this tuning / balancing to consume most of the resources into the foreseeable future.
1 Like
No I mean mobs in general. The only difference is that there were not really relevant world hubs that contained difficult mobs until well Pandaria (quel danas existed but nothing on it was hard to kill really). If you tried to do it in WoD, Legion, BFA, or of course SL before you had any gear to speak of you would have a very bad time.
But in order to make this much simpler, I decided to run a test (was going to do a 2nd part but there was no need) . I am currently at 183 item level so about at the breakpoint where you normally start to be stronger relative to past expansions. I decided I will go fight the big boy rare mobs in uldum and Vale. I either could not solo them before or it was very difficult depending on which ones I picked (I could just go blood and do it before but I didnt want to). After fighting them I have 2 observations: they have about the same HP as an SL rare but do about 1/4 to 1/5 the damage so it was a trivial fight, but a very tedious one as the big ones had 500-600k HP and I am only doing about 4-5k single target. Either way they barely moved my health bar ever. I did not have to even pop a defensive ever (and I had planned to use several).
I am not just stronger. I am significantly stronger and I got there MUCH faster than I am used to doing so. I EXPECTED it to be a struggle and then I would try using my neck with some ability based procs (aka ones that would restore runes faster or give me a buff versus do a flat damage to maximize the post leveling benefit) but that was just not needed as it was just so trivial.
At 120 in quest gear I was easily able to solo Legion mythic dungeons and world mobs died in 1-2 hits.
At 110 in quest gear I was easily able to solo WoD mythic dungeons, and world mobs died in 1-2 hits.
At 100 in quest greens I was easily able to solo Timeless Isle/Thundering Isle rares and Pandaria Dungeons.
This is the first time that a fresh max level has had issues with open-world content. It’s also the first time mobs have continued to scale (HP wise) beyond their max level. There’s no reason a level 50 mob should scale past level 50.
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The HP was annoying but the mob itself was trivial. It was no threat. Using mythic raid gear (aka better than quest gear) I have died fighting mobs on timeless isle that I could solo at 90 (I leveled too fast so i was waiting on a few guildies).
As for mythic dungeons, I could probably go in and solo them very easily right now in my gear. The only reason I could not solo them in BFA easily was that they did too much damage but that is clearly out the window as the damage done is trivial.
I was soloing mythic dungeons in WoD IN WOD. That is a terrible comparison. All of your examples basically go “I could solo stuff that I could already solo in a previous expansion but easier because I had more HP” which is the exact situation in SL.
The elite rares in Uldum and Vale had about the same HP as the rares in SL but they were weak I could have probably solod them in BFA gear just with the level advantage. I agree its a little tedious to give them that much HP, but then again they do drop mounts so its not like its the worst idea in the world to let them scale up and it doesnt harm anyone, but they are 100% not a threat to kill you which makes it seem pointless.
If anything, I dont care if they want the rares to scale up and be a challenge (though again if I had used my neck that extra boost probably would have just negated that challenge as well), to make it so that earning the mount still feels like you earned it, but they didnt do that. Its still a trivial kill. They scaled their HP (at least I assume they did I dont remember their HP post pre patch but I do remember getting rolled easily by them once I lost corruptions which obviously did not happen here), but they did not scale their damage which is just a weird choice.
The fact that the mobs gained HP does not make you weaker. The fact that you can trivially solo mythic BFA dungeons (seemingly your benchmark) means you are not weaker. You are objectively not weaker by any metric.
The fact that it takes me longer to kill a mob does, indeed, mean I’m weaker.
At this point you’re both making up so many things from past expansions and being so deliberately obtuse that I must conclude you’re trolling. There can be no other reasonable explanation for your posts in this thread.
10 Likes
First off it takes a little faster, (because I still do more damage to it now relative to back then) so that is incorrect statement number 1.
That is ignoring the simple basic reality that if I CANT BEAT A THING SOLO at level 50 and I CAN BEAT THAT THING SOLO at 60 I must be stronger. There is no counter argument to this. If I can do something at 60 that I could not do at 50 it is because I am stronger at 60.
I am sorry reality does not jive with the world view of a few on these forums, but reality does not care about how people feel. It only cares about what is and what is an unquestioned truth is you are stronger (well at least a DK is I did not bother to do it on every single class).
It’s the exact same as it was in BFA.
Good post. Your last sentence is something I will be deciding on this weekend.