The torment is a timer. It puts pressure on players to complete content within a certain amount of time or that content will become increasingly more difficult, until it is eventually not completable at all.
I think you are the one who doesnāt understand what a timer is.
Soft, actual, hard, berzerk, whatever you want to call it, a timer by any other name is still a timer. Your assumption that āmostā players wonāt need to worry about it because it only effects higher levels is what is wrong with your entire argument. You donāt know that higher levels is just the ātest phaseā of torments. No one does.
The fact is, regardless of where they start in Alpha, the timer that Torments bring seems to be widely disliked from what Iāve seen in Alpha forums, here, on Redit, on WowHead, in game blogs, from streamers and Youtubers.
Tormens are timers. Where they begin is irrelevant. Players do not want them in the content at all. A soft timer is still a timer.
Againā¦ You have a basic misunderstanding of the reasons behind the discontent and you speak about something completely different than the issue at handā¦ all the time.
Have a nice day.
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You came into this thread to pick a fight with me, it is obvious now since you are insulting me in the other so just go away.
Mad? No. But when someone promises something, does the opposite and then tries to feed me a fecal sandwich, I get a bit cross. Timers arenāt difficult. Timers are -annoying-. Thereās a difference. One is fun for me, the other is obnoxious.
I actually didnāt realize you were the same person until Iād almost finished the first reply to you here. And stating fact isnāt being insulting, itās just being real.
Iām trying to explain a point of view, I understand yours, I simply donāt agree. You can disagree with me, thatās fantastic. Thatās how discussions begin. Iāve even said I, we, should just agree to disagree. You keep trying to tell me that my point of view, my opinion, is wrong. It is not, nor is yours.
But a timer is a timer regardless of what you think or whether itās soft, actual, hard, kind of there, mostly there, makes things move faster, just a little, kind of noticeable, whatever. That is fact. Torments are timers.
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Timers have almost always been a thing. Why were people not always mad about them?
Because context is important. Promising that something will not have a timer, and then trying to sneak one in through the back door is going to make more people upset than being up front about it.
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Are you sure what you are stating is facts though - you arenāt.
I am playing on alpha that is why I responded to that guys call. There is no timers of any nature in most of those modes. Most people are never going to encounter them if things remain the same and the people who do are typically doing the type of content that already has timers so it should be no big deal for them.
In any case, I am totally done talking to you. I feel like I am talking to a brick wall.
whats going on, can someone explain it to me? i havent been paying attention to shadowlands news at all.
The difference is one, being told no timer and then adding a timer. Two, people are getting fed up with timers at this point. At first it was just M+ and now its M+ and Visionsā¦now its possibly going to be M+, Visions AND Torghast?? No thanks.
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Yes, letās talk about the three four mask clears that went down the drain for me today, because of random IRL interruptions. Letās talk about a week of farming coalescing visions wasted whereas in timer-less content, I could have dealt with the issues that arose and then completed the run without problems. āNo big dealā? Some of us have lives we didnāt have 10 years ago. **** timers!
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You mean since 2005? Because thatās how long timers have been in this game.
Because some content is enhanced by them, other content is hurt by them. I havenāt been lucky enough to get an Alpha key so I have no first hand knowledge or experience, but from what Iām reading and seeing on streams, the timers take a lot of the fun out of Torghast, which was advertised as ācontent for everyone without time constraintsā. Adding Torments is directly contradictory to how they were originally advertised.
I wonāt go so far as to say that Blizzard āpromisedā anything, I take pretty much everything they say or do with a grain of salt until it is live, and even then it could be changed on a dime and/or completely ruined, but they have a tendency to put things in the game to āprotect us from ourselvesā for no reason other than āreasonsā.
Everything doesnāt need to be time gated. Everything doesnāt need to be timed. Everything doesnāt need to be blocked. Some things are okay to just ābeā so we can play them until our hearts are content.
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Um. You are purposefully ignoring my point. I explained, to the point a 5 year old could understand, that the timed content is increasing, not staying the same or decreasing but increasing. If you cant understand that then you are just being stubborn and nothing I or anyone else can say will make you understand.
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NO worries the idea shield on that one is strongā¦nothing is getting thru. Much like a echasketch they will move around in real life and forget all the information they are taught. Then once again they will spew out the same junk all over again. It happens in roughly 10 minutes, you can set your watch by it.
so torghast is a infinite tower? is it just for sh*ts and giggles, boasting for an achievement or is the tower for gear and other crap?
Iām not sure of anything at all. From where I sit, you are the one who seems āsureā that what you think is somehow factā¦
You seem to think that so few people will move beyond the āeasyā floors that nothing matters past that. You seem to think that players have zero desire for a challenge. Torghast has the potential to be actual, increasingly challenging content for anyone who wants to take part in it.
Torments are timers! That is true. They may or may not effect everyone, every floor, only some of us, only floor 30 to 500, who knows. That does not change the fact that they are a soft timer, basically an enrage.
These timers that you seem to believe will effect so few people they shouldnāt matter could end up on every floor. We are in the early stages of Alpha testing, no oneā¦including Alpha testersā¦have any real clue how they will be implemented when the expansion goes live. But you seem to have this odd idea that because itās what is currently available for testing it must be the way it will be forever. They arenāt, or at least they are probably, most likely, almost definitely not finished tuning, changing, redoing, something somewhere somehow someday.
In any case. Iām not the brick wall here. I totally understand what youāre saying. But you wonāt allow yourself to see anyone elseās concerns as even valid to bring up.
I hope you are correct. I hope that if they leave torments in that they stay at the highest levels. But I understand that concerns of those who are worried that Torments will be more than what is currently being tested.
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They will be how we create our Legendaries in Shadowlands. Iām not sure how but I think they drop, or reward?, currency or materials needed to create them.
My understanding is that Legendaries will be ātargetableā and crafted.
theyre bringing back legendaries?..man im not getting a good feeling about this. legendarys gonna be mandatory ofc and now this tower that everyone seems to fu**ing despise plays a big part in it.
great, just greatā¦and here i thought shadowlands was looking to be awesome with bringing back abilities and buffs and tiers, and getting rid of this annoying a** daily grind for artifact/azerite power
Actually, and I am not in Alpha and havenāt tested or played it myself so I have zero first hand knowledge or experience, from what Iām reading and seeing on streams, the tower its self is widely liked.
What people are ādespisingā is the newly added Torment (basically a soft enrage timer).
Tower good. Timer bad. 
Itās also been said that the Torments are not on every floor, or maybe just not noticeable on every floor? Iām not sure which, but it seems the timers are only on higher floors so you may be able to just limit yourself to the early floors and forego the ābadā part.
We will see as testing continues and they rework, revamp, completely change, remove, add, etc. stuffs to the expansion.
Yep, Iām going to get called a no skill casual because I stick to floors without timers by people who havenāt even played a proper roguelike for more than ten minutes because itās ātoo hardā 