Why did they get rid of US EAST server

Our Wc3 experiences clearly do not align then. There are dozens of communities and hundreds of players that agree with me. Case and point this thread existing in the first place.

You can’t just say “It’s not an issue”. When it clearly is for some people. You’re disregarding entire groups of players because of your own anecdotal experiences. This isn’t about getting an edge over other gamers, this is about enjoying a game that I’m used to playing with low ping and that option is no longer available.

I’m not sure this conversation is worth continuing given we do not play the same games. This is a great example of what makes Wc3 so amazing, two players who have played for decades having entirely different gaming experiences. I just wish you could see it from my point of view.

I didn’t say it’s not an issue at all. But it isn’t an issue for the vast majority of the playerbase that is not highly skilled and playing for serious competition.

And you seem to misunderstand, I totally get your point of view. But my point is, you and the people you describe do not represent the majority of the playerbase. That is the reason why you are wondering about the lack of outcry. The majority of players simply are not bothered as much as you are. That doesn’t mean the game is perfect or even ideal, it simply means that the things that spark rage for you do not for most other people.

Ultimately, it boils down to this: There is basically zero % chance that Blizzard adds more servers for a game with a playerbase the size of this game. Those are simply the cards we’ve been dealt. For most of us, it works enough that we can enjoy the game. But the days of super serious competition for warcraft III are basically over and have been for a long time. It just isn’t going to happen. the few remaining pro gamers who demand a better ping simply aren’t going to get it because they see what we have as “good enough” and they aren’t going to spend more money to change that when the game was already a huge financial loss for the publisher (even if that was self-inflicted…)

I sympathize with your situation, but I can not force myself to be outraged about something that hasn’t been a major problem (aside from that occasional 300+ ping KR game)

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You’re trivializing the issue saying it only applies to pro gamers and marginalizing entire communities.

I’m not a melee player, but a large portion of the melee playerbase went and made an entire separate client called W3Champions because cross-regional play was so bad. So saying this doesn’t affect the majority of players is just flat out wrong, when the majority of melee players use W3C.

Honestly, I would rather Blizzard shutdown all the servers so players would be willing to migrate to one client instead of being fractured across several.

You keep saying this issue doesn’t affect you, but it will in the future once they take down USW or Europe servers and even more of the dwindling playerbase vanishes.

Thing is, you’re doing the same. You’re marginalizing the majority average-belowaverage playerbase for the interests of a small segment of the community.

I say it only applies to pro gamers because it does. Most of us weren’t using any of those tools you listed. I haven’t even heard of most of it aside from garena. You overestimate the number of people who found pings to be too high for an enjoyable game back in the day and today.

I downloaded a leaked copy of the game to particiapte in the alpha and beta tests all those 20 years ago. I was enjoying the game before any of the stuff you describe ever existed. It wasn’t a problem then and it isn’t that much worse now. It was only the most serious players that led to the creation of those tools and environments. I’d still like the east coast server back but if they pulled it I don’t see that happening.

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I’m arguing for a feature that will help everyone. There’s no group being marginalized.

You seem to get the idea that I’m against better pings or something. I’m not. But the majority of us have simply accepted reality. We’re not going to get new servers, and I’ll consider us exceptionally lucky if they restore the chicago server.

You are expecting people like me to join you in outrage. I can’t do that, because I’m not outraged. Would it be nice if it was better? Sure. Can I enjoy the game as it stands right now? Yes (as long as the matching server doesn’t take a dump…). And that’s where many of us differ from you. It just isn’t bad enough to enrage most players in the face of all the other larger problems the game has.

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You never felt what it was like to play in sub 20ms. So of course you would never miss it. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Well, you’re right that I never felt that (Outside of a LAN party), because it never actually happened lol.

But again, most of us aren’t even measuring our pings unless we’re having problems. We don’t track problem metrics unless we actually have a problem.

at least 2/3 of the people on the internet probably don’t even know what a ping is.

When war3 was new, 20 ping was basically unheard of in online games unless you were one of the lucky few people with the best internet connection avialable at the time. (In other words, you were the exception, not the rule, if you had good enough internet to get a ping like that- most of us were still on dial-up 20 years ago)

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Yes, when Wc3 first came out pings were worse than they are today, we also still had dial-up internet, so that’s a completely different scenario. I’m talking about the 2008-2019 era.

Getting sub 60ms was very accessible with just the Delay Reducer. Then Host Bots became a thing and sub 30ms was the gold standard, you could even get 0ms if you self hosted the bot yourself.

I’m not arguing for those days again though, I understand that’ll never be the case, but over 100 is just unacceptable unless I’m playing on Europe.

The thing is, you’re delving into third party tools that only the most serious players used, as I said. I’ve been playing as long as you have and I’ve never heard of this “delay reducer.” It’s a safe bet that most ordinary players (i.e. not high skill or pro players doing prize-bearing tournaments) haven’t heard of it either.

The General Public i.e. ordinary players will generally accept “good enough.” It functions, they can play it, that’s all that matters to them. You are a rare breed that demands better than that. I need to emphasize there is nothing wrong with that at all. But your expectations are unrealistic when the matching system just plain stops working half the time, and creates ridiculously lopsided matches the other half of the time. Making the game more enjoyable at a base level should take priority over optimizing network performance.

These are problems that they could fix if they wanted to, which would cost very little money compared to offering more servers to give people better pings.

And again, in a perfect world with a Blizzard/Microsoft that cares, we’d have both. But… one thing at a time.

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They tried to make the game more “enjoyable” with reforged and broke everything. It’s a game we’ve played this long, I’m not sure any additional changes will make it more enjoyable than it already was.

I would rather they focused on the Client, UI, and Networking. Performance aside, there are other networking issues with Reforged like Units being hit over walls by other melee units, which never used to occur as frequently as I’m seeing now.

Click here if you want to see what low ping made possible pre-reforged.

You seem to underestimate how many players used these tools, by just writing it off as “serious” players only. Communities like DOTA, Snipers, ST, ET, HHF, Warlocks, RKR, slide/maze, the list goes on. They all used these tools.

I can still dig up old threads on Hiveworkshop discussing these tools in-depth. They have thousands of downloads.

Guess what though, the majority of these players and communities have disappeared.

You want better matchmaking for ladder well you need a playerbase first. Personally, I can think of more than a dozen players that would play Wc3 again if the latency was better.

I understand as a casual gamer this doesn’t matter to you, but I’d argue Wc3 was popularized by competitive and serious gamers.

I think you overestimate, not the other way around. People will only look for and use third party tools if they have a problem, but even then, most people will actually just move on to another game if they run into these kinds of problems rather than try to fix them. People are fickle like that. Also, most people don’t even participate in communities like this. You and I talking here, along with everyone else, we’re a minority still. Same thing goes with player retention in other ways. Dunno if its still accurate or not, but several years after WoW came out, it was reported that something like 2/3 of people who pick up the game don’t even make it to level 10 before quitting- and that’s something you can do in the first few hours of the game.

In the end, all I can tell you is I didn’t use it, nor did i even hear about it until this very thread. And I played a LOT in the first several years of the game’s existence. Perhaps if I had problems, I might have came across it while searching for solutions. But I never had a big enough problem with network performance that I felt the need to find external solutions. And it’s a pretty safe bet that if I, a not-very-serious player that still invested quite a bit of time in the game, did not know about or discover it before now, that typical players usually didn’t either.

What we’re dealing with here is confirmation bias. You used the thing, and people you know used the thing, thus you think “everybody” used it. But if you only look at people that fall into the same category as you, you’re going to get a biased view of the situation.

This is a chicken and egg thing. But I can promise you that most people who have played and quit reforged did so because the game was broken in myriad ways- not because (or at least just because) their ping wasn’t optimal. Most of the people who have refunded the game either couldn’t launch it at all, or had severe performance problems, or constant crashes. I don’t know one person who quit purely because their ping was higher than it was in some other game. I’m not saying that ping wasn’t a problem with anybody or that nobody quit because of it, but, you guys are higher skill players, you’ve made that pretty clear, and your standard for ping and probably other performance metrics is higher than that of the average player. So even that dozen players you refer to is still likely outside of the majority. And in general, higher level players feel like there are more of themselves than there actually are.

Again: I’m not saying we don’t deserve better ping. I’ve never said that. Please don’t misconstrue me there. But in the grand scheme of things, it is, for most people in most cases, a very minor issue compared to other problems with the game. I personally only have an issue if I get into a KR-hosted match. 80-90ping on USW and ~120 on EU, I find both to be totally playable. The game itself colors games with a ping under 100 green, as in “good,” and pings over that yellow as in “OKish.” And that’s exactly how I feel about it. Not sure what the cutoff is before it colors it red, but every KR game ive seen has a ping over 300- that’s near a third of a second and is enough to make it feel like you’re dragging your units through a few feet of mud. And never outside of a KR game have I felt like ping made me lose a game. Leavers and game start disconnects have been a FAR worse problem for me than ping could ever be.

but I’d argue Wc3 was popularized by competitive and serious gamers.

I don’t really agree. Look at all the people who come on this forum and they talk about issues with the campaign and maybe custom games like footie frenzy and stuff like that. Serious players don’t care about the campaign, they care about competition. They probably beat the campaign in the first few days after the game came out and then forgot about it.

Any extent to which this is true owes to the fact that RTS games in general are more complex and taxing than many other genres. But the campaign on normal is really quite easy, even for people not that used to RTS games.

It’s easy to say stuff like this when you personally are invested in the scene. But VERY few games out there are principally populated by invested, hardcore gamers.

Also side note, while I’m not super serious about this game, I am far, far from a casual gamer. This is just not my main game, even though it’s one I had a passion for for quite some time.

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I never said everybody used it. I simply said you can see how many downloads that tool has exactly on Hiveworkshop (it’s in the thousands). It was also very easy to see how widespread Host bots were for years just by looking at the custom games list back in the day.

And are you really going to say that DOTA alone didn’t make up a considerable amount of Warcraft 3 users at one point in time?

I wouldn’t call it minor and I really don’t know what all these “other problems” that you’re rambling about are. The game works great aside from the latency and other networking related issues. The client and chat UI itself could use a whole new rework, but that’s not going to happen.

I’m aware of what they define good as, the problem is whatever the ping is in the custom games list is usually an additional 30-40 higher once you get in game. I literally hosted a game by myself and had 140ms. This is in a game with no other users.

It’s just a shame because Blizzard could have generated some revenue by offering paid private servers and everybody wins. Instead they are just removing servers and alternative hosting providers because ??

I guess if you just play TDs and Castle Defense you’re fine, but for those of us who rely on reliable servers it’s killing our communities for both old and new players.

First: By all means, throw your own personal uproar if it bothers you so much. I merely set out to explain to you why the entire game community isn’t all up-in-arms alongside you on this particular topic - Not to minimize your concerns or start a fight. As skill level rises, so does the desire for lower ping. But most of us aren’t skilled enough for a higher-than-rock-bottom ping to matter.

I put it in quotation marks deliberately, as in you feel you’re comfortably in the majority. That’s what I meant by that.

I’m sure it did, but I don’t really count those players as war3 players, because that isn’t really what they were there for. But I’d agree that the players who did were all in on optimizing performance and would jump through hoops to lower their ping.

I would. Anyone who calls an 80-90 ping a problem or unacceptable, is, to me, an elitist hardcore pro demanding perfection. Probably a majority of the games I play I get pings in that range. Some have more servers in more places and then I’ll get a better ping, but I’ve been dealing with it for as long as the internet has existed and have throughly enjoyed dozens if not hundreds of different online games with pings in that range. Well designed games (particularly shooters can even mask pings like that or even larger with various techniques. no doubt your fancy tool does something similar. In other cases, sometimes VPNs can help lower your ping. Yes, its an added cost, but it’s a trivial one and many people choose this option. I use Mudfish which charges by traffic usage- I spent $2 on bandwidth a couple years ago and I still haven’t used it all yet because I don’t use it all the time.

Regular gameplay for me works fine, the only networking issues I see are when i get a game hosted on KR with a 300+ ping. I"m on the east coast US. I find the USW pings perfectly acceptable. I’ve never lost a game because of ping. I lose games because I suck and it’s that simple. I’ve never had a moment where I though “if only my click came through 1 frame sooner…” In my opinion, it is extremely rare for a margin of a couple of frames (the difference between what we get and what you want) to swing the outcome of a fight in this game, at least at the “normal person” skill level. War3 is slow paced as far as RTS games go, and unless you’re playing DOTA , I don’t feel its necessary.

Frankly I’m stunned you don’t think things like the semi-rigged matchmaking and ranked MMR caclulation nonsense aren’t bigger problems. The players who get dropped at the start of the game? On average when I play 4v4s, somebody quits or gets dropped at the start of like 3 out of 4 games. What about the AT RT issue? Being a skilled player, I imagine you wouldn’t be bothered by that because you’re going to end up on the winning side much more often than not.

I’m sorry but calling an 80-90 ping unacceptable is ridiculous. Regular players like me have been putting up with it for decades and having a good time. It is not much of a problem to players of ordinary skill, of which there are many more of than top tier or pro players.

Again: That doesn’t mean it’s not a problem at all, it just isn’t impactful enough for anyone outside the top few percent to care much. I consider the KR games with 300+ ping a problem. Pings in my region are totally fine, even though the server is on the other side of the country. Pings to EU are not as good but still “acceptable” to me. Even on EU I don’t feel like ping is keeping me from doing the best I can. And whoever designed the UI for the custom game list also seems to think under 100 ping is “good.” Lower ping is always more gooder. But there is a standard below which I consider things “fine” and to me, that’s “below 100.” In FPS games I might be a bit pickier, but FPS games do tend to a wider range of server locations.

(Moved the important part to the top).

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You haven’t been paying attention. I do not play melee I play custom games. The fact you don’t call Dota players Wc3 players means you wouldn’t called Sheep Taggers Wc3 players either. So you simply don’t get it. That’s okay.

There you go coming up with conclusions to support your own narrative again. I specifically mentioned DOTA right? To me that’s seperate from even custom games as it’s basically its own game within a game. It’s not even relevant to the situation. You probably didn’t even read the post before saying that.

You still do not seem to understand that I never said lower ping isn’t better. It’s a matter of priorities. If you don’t play regular war3, then it is you who does not understand.

It should be obvious to even you that the game as a whole caters to different groups in different ways with different needs. Thus, people who are not in the same group as you will not have the same demands.

THAT. IS. WHY. THERE. IS. NO. OUTCRY. “why is there no outcry” is the question you asked that ive spent the last whole bunch of posts trying to explain to you. What differences there are between you and me isn’t even relevant. You asked a question and I gave an answer. It should have been that simple. Also you didn’t say until just this post that “I only play custom games.”

I only play melee. Some people only play DOTA. Some people only play the campaign. We all have different needs.

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You haven’t read half of what I’ve said then. I stated this is a concern for “niche communities” several times and rattled off various custom games.

Thank you for answering “where is the outcry?” that question was clearly an exaggeration for dramatic effect, but here we are.

To me this should be priority #1 as it affects every single person who plays Wc3. Better matchmaking only affects ladder players that don’t already play on W3Champions.

Well, it doesn’t seem like you’ve read my posts either so… I guess we can call it a day?

The only reason W3C even exists is because the game launched without ranked (and then they effed it up when it did eventually arrive).

if battle.net wasn’t broken, we wouldn’t need W3C (and I have no desire to use it since most of the people who do are way more skilled than I am, where as on battle.net I can get winnable games). And while yes, better pings benefit everyone, the issue is they don’t want to spend money on this game. More servers cost more money to operate. Meanwhile, fixing all the other issues that plague the game should (at least in theory, only be one time costs. If the game is less broken, more people will play it, and then there will be even more people to benefit from those lower pings. More people playing also means they can (potentially) justify the cost of operating more servers.

The game has a lot of serious problems. Not just with melee, but also with custom games, as a lot of custom game systems are broken/not working right as well. Fix the game, then fix the ping. Again, I don’t see it as a big problem that needs fixing in the first place, but whatever. Like you said, it doesn’t hurt anybody or anything other than Microsoft’s pocketbook. But they probably see this as throwing good money after bad.

Overwatch has severs in many places… but way more people play that game than this, and the game has ways of making money over time, whereas with war3… well they never made any further paid content other than the spoils of war DLC, so… they’re not making any money post sale and so many people refunded after launch that this game probably cost Activision quite a few millions with no return… of course that’s really their own fault for not funding it when it needed it most in the first place…

That cost is probably why the Chicago server went MIA in the first place. So given that we actually have fewer servers now, the likelyhood that we will ever get more seems minimal, regardless of how badly anybody needs it.

Then let your users pay for their own servers like every other game does in 2024? If users were willing to pay for host bots then I have no doubt they’d be willing to pay Blizzard for private servers.