Warcraft III: Reforged PTR - Version 1.35.0


Every single damaging unit in WC3 gives experience if it dies. Literally every single one. Except mirror image. An orc player can create any amount of mirror images and cause any amount of damage without giving any experience away. How in the world is this balance?

All summons give experience. All ultimates (Warden avatar, pitlord’s ultimate, Phoenix’s bloodmage), everything gives experience. But mirror image can cause damage and also crit without giving any experience? Please rethink this one.


I don’t agree with you, back in patch 1.26-1.28 Hu vs Ud seemed a balanced matchup, and the races still had their particularities and game design you mentioned. Buffing/changing unused spells are a great thing to add more strategies to the table in every game mode and matchup. Regarding games that have heroes at level 7-10 (which is very rare in team games, and most seen in FFA) the last three abilities shouldn’t shift the meta or create unbalance, after all they are the last ones to be chosen.

Just my thoughts though.

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                                  The Elf heroes and few units need buff.
  1. Demon Hunter just bring back for him +1 agility and +1 armor. main tanky hero for NE players so i think return agility and armor good idea. Also when DH want manaburn opponents heroes like DK( coil) Lich( nova) combo takes half of it from him hp, so elf heroes need staff him to base again and NE army fighting without main tanky hero and 50% games losing fight and game. So i think will be good if buff for dh range for manaburn from 300 to 400. Buff evasion from 10/20/30 to 15/30/45
  2. Keeper of the Grove: Keeper of the Grove base Intelligence from 18 to 19 and Entangling Roots cast range on 700 with lvl 2 so 600-700-800 and Thorns AuraReflects need also to make this aura work as well on units and heroes against ranged combat as it does on units in melee combat and against critical strikes, Increased treants damage base from 14 to 16.
  3. Potm: Owls Scouts buff like more duration, aura buffs like 15%/25%/30% and base attack cooldown reduced from 2.33 to 2.00. Hide: fade duration for Potm from 1.5 to 1.0 second.
  4. Warden: Buff intelligence from 16 to 17. Fan of knife unit cap 5\6\7. Agility on +1. Shadow Strike mana cost return from 75 to 65. Warden has used 4 spells and solo tanky hero so I think it will not hurt to give a little intelligence and also that this hero survives at the end of the game. Hide fade duration for warden from 1.5 to 1.0 second.

Buff hp for wisps and back for them mana lose to units heroes from 40 to 50 and hp from 120 to 130 or 140 hp. Was buff hp for peons, acolytes and peasants so please buff hp for wisps too.

So now about units.

Archer: return hp from 255 to 260 and time to hide from 1.5 to 1.0 second Because at the beginning of the game these units are very weak.

Huntress: Huntress time to hide from 1.5 to 1.0 second.

Hippogryph: add +2 armor will be help for this units or add hp from 525 to 550.

Dryads: Rework. Please buff hp for Dryads HP from 435 to 450 and bring back Abolish Magic damage against summoned units 300. Main mana 300 and initial mana 100 and mana regeneration: 0.95 . Reduce the experience gain from Dryads from Level 3 (60xp) to Level 2 (40 xp). Because the elves absolutely do not have enough dispel mana and damage for dispel also the dryads themselves as units are very weak so it would not hurt to add a little hit points.

Druid of the Talon: Buff Druid of the Talon please, a little bit buff hp and spells faerie fire duration for heroes 60 and for units 90 and the cost of Magic Fire mana is reduced from 45 to 35 . Also guys back fortified on t3 for orc. Because orc have Reinforced Defenses(fortified) and Spiked Barricades on T2 because it”s too much have 2 upgrade for buildings.

Mountain Giant: Make it so that the elves can produce MG’s without shop. After buff Taurens and Knights like u give for them 25% pulverize and sundering blades defaults so give also for Mountain Giants Resistant Skin or Hardened Skin default and Mountain Giant supply reduced from 7 back to 6. Also after u nerf double taunt, this units no used and no playble in 1vs1, so recuced for mgs from 14 to 6 or 7 second cooldown taunts. Also please dont nerf harderen skin to 8 because this units usless now and on pro lvl no useble units. So will be good if nerf to 10 armor with 2 base armor.

Chimera’s. Chimaera movement speed return from 250 to 270. These units are very weak against the air if you don’t have time to make a defense for them due to hippogryphs or dryads so I think it wouldn’t hurt to give them some mobility back.

Now about the buildings: Free of lifes buff Nature’s Blessing Armor Bonus on +2: so will be 4 for Ancient Protectors, 7 for others. The elven tree of life has the smallest hit points of all the main buildings in the game and also the elven buildings at the beginning of the game have less armor than other races so it would not be bad to equalize some armor buffs nature’s blessing.

The next build Ancient of War Hit Points from 900 to 950 and base attack increases from 36 to 40 because players for elves use them mostly from the beginning of the game for creeping. They also serve to stand in front of the expansion as a protective building while you are engaged in creeping.

Hi. First of all, it is very nice to see balance changes to WC3 again. Furthermore it is very nice to see that you have incorporated a lot of the early feedback about some of the changes that were problematic.

That being said, there are a few points that need to be addressed even at the PTR stage, as their current implementation either breaks the balance of the game completely or does not work as intended. I have sorted them here in the rank of “urgency”. While this list is obviously subjective, I think a lot of the points here reflect the attitude of large parts of the community.

  • Reverting immolation damage change from 15/20/25 back to 10/15/20.
  • Immolation Duration reduced from 1 to 0.5 seconds.

With the change of duration (or damage tick per second) this means that immolation in the current state of the PTR does 20/30/40 damage per second. This is a 100% increase from the damage levels in the live game currently. This damage model is still way too high, and will absolutely break the balance of NEvsHU and possibly NEvsUD given the extreme efficiency this will have against fast expo, footmen, militia and ghouls in particular. In its current state, it makes testing on PTR more or less useless, in case you face a NE who goes DH first.

This can be and is easily verified by doing some simple tests on the PTR. Given that the tick rate has been doubled, damage model should be changed to 5/8/10 or 6/8/11 (this would result in 10/16/20 or 12/16/22 damage per second given 0,5 tick rate) and then be slowly increased if it is not powerful enough, to find the proper “breaking point” for the ability.

  • Siege Engine armor changed from heavy to medium.

This won’t help give Siege Engines any meaningful role in human gameplay. They are now weak vs Druids of the Claw, Ghouls and Aboms, basic counters for the races they used to be sometimes useful against. As a siege vs unarmored unit they will never be close in efficiency compared to mortars because of the lack of attack range and generally clunkiness (in addition to lower damage).

The PTR itself is currently bugged. Creeps does not drop items and Heroes start without a TP. There is also something wrong with the icons in building queues. In sum this makes it meaningless to play on the PTR currently. If this is fixed and the immolation is scaled back properly further testing on the PTR would again be possible.


ahaha this is a topic of who puts how much on the up of their race. Elves understand, if you beg for an improvement, then other players will adapt. Do you want to play mirror only?
Whoever makes this patch, you don’t understand at all. Then the noobs advised you, and you moved the balance. Everyone who has mmr<2200 including streamers does not understand the game.
Want a good patch gather opinions
Grubby, Happy, 120, Moon, TGW, Sok, Infi. and a few more. 2-3 representatives of races. Then make a list and send it back to them for revision. Then there will really be a sensible patch.

And what is happening now causes only not understanding and anger.


thanks for the update <3 good word kaivax and wc3 team

Very nice changes :slight_smile: they seem to favor some Human playing styles,which are less popular,and this is awesome and creates variety.
I would add the following possible changes:

  1. Syphon mana currently cannot target allied invulnerable targets. This is important for the paladin/bloodmage combination. If it is possible, it would be incredibly useful.
  2. Cannon towers have six major disadvantages:
    2.1) They require a workshop (instead of perhaps keep + blacksmith)
    2.2) They can miss
    2.3) They cost a lot of resources
    2.4) They have friendly fire
    2.5) They build slowly
    2.6) They are the only tower with a minimum range (it is countered by melee units)
    Eliminating two or three of them would make this tower truly the best tower in the game, even borderline overpowered.
  3. The mechanical critter buff is nice. I would personally make it cost no resources and be limited only by cooldown in the shop, and humans would always buy and use it.
  4. Paladin movement speed or agility could use a slight buff.
  5. Periapts of vitality are really weak items,they need a price buff (like 200 gold cost instead of 325)

Can’t wait to laugh when u ruin the balance in the next patch. Time to say goodbye to wc3. Total incompetent Team, stop touching the balance of this game!

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Is this supposed to work in the Loading Screen tab of the campaign editor? Because I can’t seem to get it to see the videos to add to the chapter list. For testing purposes I ripped one of the cinematics straight from the game files so it SHOULD be encoded right.

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You are potentially nerfing every single strength that Undead players have.

Instead of applying this hasty action, please spend time fixing the embarrassing bugs currently present in Reforged:

  1. “Failed to retrieve results” error after 95% of ladder matches
  2. Wins do not count
  3. Losses do not count
  4. Wins give an arbitrary number of losses
  5. Wins give an arbitrary number of wins
  6. Losses give an arbitrary number of losses
  7. Profiles are no longer viewable
  8. Leaderboards reflect zero semblance of reality
  9. Chat bug where if any player joins, leaves, or moves slot it will deselect the chat box

Applying (drastic) balance changes to a game when there are still many game-breaking bugs is a curious action.

I am humbly asking for this competitive ladder game to have a functional, and viewable log of wins and losses. The fact that a functional ladder and profiles were taken away in January 2020 and STILL are not restored is utterly absurd.


Congratulations for the fast response to the community!
Still a little worried about the siege tank armor, but everything else, excellent! Let’s gooooo!!

That is, now the most vulnerable mine in the game is being built almost as much as orc great hall is being built? The rest of the changes make at least some sense, but mine is already very vulnerable, maybe UD shouldn’t mine gold in this game at all?

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My opinion:

Altar heroes:

Gold cost reduced from 425 to 400 on all altar heroes. good for orc and human in certain match ups. helps orc vs ne/ud and helps hu vs ud/ne. Honestly not entirely sure if this is needed, but a cool mechanic slightly punishing tavern hero pressure in certain match ups


Reverting Headhunter gold change from 160 back to 140. good, but wood is a bigger problem early game. Maybe revert wood to 20 and make it 150 OR make a range change. I really like the range improvement idea on beserk or regen upgrade from Starshaped. So without upgrade they are 500 and if you have the upgrade you get 550. Maybe even just have that as the change and revert costs completely and see how it feels.

Blademaster Mirror images damage increased from 10 to 25% of the Blademaster’s base damage. I’d prefer to see level based scaling to create value on leveling the skill on top of number of illusions. 3 skill point investment is a biggy, otherwise i don’t think its gonna be used other then where its used already (only in OvE…?)

Troll Batriders Liquid Fire no longer prevents repairs but now reduces the repair rate by 75%. Really like this. But I’m biased towards non-laming tactics. So any type of true laming definitely gets my vote.

Great Hall build time reduced from 150 to 135 seconds. Very nice for orc. This makes normal GH a more viable option. vs NE it can really help out in not having it cancelled. However this might be quite a big one, 15 seconds is a lot for an expo to be faster. Does this also affect the time it takes a tiny is built, i think that should be increased slightly then because its already incredibly fast. At the very least make that the same as before by adjusting the build % time?

Bladestorm cooldown reduced from 180 to 120 seconds. No opinion on this. So situational and rarely used in 1on1. Might see it more in other game modes, which is cool.


Siege Engine armor changed from heavy to medium. I have no opinion on the tank change. UvH seems strong on the highest level but i can imagine tanks were oppresive to deal with for lower ranges. I saidbefore i don’t like laming, so this seems to change that mechanic about tanks a little more. Curious on if someone finds a use for them, but I’d figure we are gonna see a complete revert here.

Siege Engine damage reverted back from 22 to 44. same answer as above

Spellbreaker armor increased from 2 to 3. good change i think, it was needed vs bear apperently. Its also good vs headhunters. So if you change HH slightly and add the armor for breakers, i think this allows more options for human to counter HH style too. Apperently that was a big issue for some humans to deal with. Given HH is slightly favored ONLY in OvH, I think this is a great addition to maybe stop Orcs from going HH at all or providing humans more options.

Blood Mage’s Siphon mana cost reverted from 20 back to 10. I’m definitely on the “bloodmage is too easy to execute” train for how powerful it is. Mana is probably the most important thing in the game and it goes away so fast. I think making the starting mana higher was the right idea. I would have preferred this to stay and the amount drained to be reverted BUT change the mechanics of the drain. The cast range and the full ‘cancel range’ are different from each other, this is very counter intuitive to play against. I think the cancel range should be the same as the cast range, so that its easier to cancel. There is skill involved to cancel (positioning, running away), and skill involved in using it (positioning, additional abilities like stun etc)

Blacksmith cost reduced from 50 to 40 lumber. I don’t play enough human to know what the impact is here. Its gonna be situational how much impact this has. From what I feel is that humans seemingly have an easy time to expand without too many towers, so reducing wood to a vital production building can be big. Especially with the addition of other changes like increased worker HP and the war training t2. But we will see how this turns out.

Holy Light cooldown change reverted from 4 back to 5. Yeah 4 seconds to me was insane. I really think most heroes complement each other very well and are ingrained in certain meta’s/match ups. If we change something, it could be a slight increase in movement speed or a stat buff. So +1 strength or +1 intelligence and see how that goes. We forget how much impact it can have (BM/DH nerf, Panda buff, KOTG/CL nerf and buffs recently), so lets be careful with hero changes.

Animal War Training no longer has Castle requirement. Helps get T3 be stronger earlier. We’ve experimented with this before and reverted every time I believe. Maybe divide it in to 2 upgrades so there is more room to play with. A lvl 1 war training on T2 for +50 and a lvl 2 war training on T3 for +50 again so in total its the same as before. You can have a slight power spike by researching it before T2, but you aren’t instantly at full power either. So the 2nd upgrade really is a “when do I invest in it, and when do i just need more knights”

Staff of Sanctuary cost reduced from 250 to 200. Risky but I like it. I’m not entirely sure if we wanna have more staffs rather then fewer staffs in the game, but I feel like human has a really hard time to do everything and also get the staff (or multiple). So I guess we will find out if they will have 3 staffs every game if they go T3 now or that its just situational. It gives 1 base T3 a little more viability which is nice i think

Orb of Fire damage from +7 to +10. +3 is an insane step stats wise. I feel like the burn really helped vs UD. +3 buff seems to be very abusable. We’re tuning every single stat item to have LESS damage, and here we suddenly go +3. Seems too big for my taste, especially in comparison to other orbs. Maybe make the steps smaller and see how much use there is for it.

Night Elf:

Druid of the Talon Crow Damage base damage reduced from 34 to 26. I think this is a smart one to start with a lower number and see from there.

Reverting immolation damage change from 15/20/25 back to 10/15/20. The 0,5 tick damage is still there given they didn’t mention that. So it still means that 1 second of immolation is 20/30/40 damage. Still a lot of damage and potential. Might especially be problematic in other game types (4v4/ffa) because we see more high lvl heroes there. I am not sure DH can go without mana burn and evasion in 1on1, but we will see how it develops.


Ghoul Frenzy change reverted no longer gives 30 HP bonus. This was by far the most crazy change of this patch. I don’t think anyone asked for it, glad its gone

Lich Frost Nova Damage reduced from 50/100/150 to 45/90/135. Finally a change on the Lich. Nova had a target damage (unit hit) of 100 and a ‘nova’ damage (area of effect hit) of 50/100/150. 250 target damage AND 150 aoe damage was insane stat wise. I’m very glad the AoE goes down a little bit. With the new peasent HP of 240 this means a peasent doesnt instantly die from nova. This might be huge in HvU. I’m not 100% convinced this is the perfect change though. The slow duration is insane too, I’m not sure which I would like to see changed sooner. Maybe make this slow more in line with TC/MK changes recently. But lets first see how this change ends up.

Haunted Goldmine build time increased from 100 to 120 seconds. I think this is a great way for UD to commit more on the goldmine. Needs to be protected longer so UD play is more constrained to protection longer. Maybe I would’ve liked a nerubian change more then this. I feel like when the nerub is up, its only a matter of time before the goldmine is finished. And committing to cancel the goldmine is a massive all-in for every race (orc speedscroll is the exception), rather then a timed cancel. We’ll see how much impact this has.

Death Knight’s animated dead corpses are no longer dispellable. Was it dispellable? I have no opinion here. I think invulnerable units are really weird mechanics for a RTS (dk and warden ult), but they are very rare and DK just has better options most of the time. I’m not aware this is an issue in any match up anyway.

Obsidian Statue spirit touch mana restore reduced from 3 to 2 This is a big change for the way UDs play the game. The sustain on statues is incredible, this might actually mean UDs have to retreat before other races in a fight sometimes.

UD getting hit quite a bit here. If we account for everything done to UD, this may be a step too far. I prefer to keep the nova/statue changes above anything else, and then see how it goes from there.

I’m glad they reverted that one to be honest. It kind of struck me odd that they buff Ghouls, when early Ghoul opening to finish is probably one of the most op strat in meta this past year. UD got hit with the big nerf stick this time and Destroyers are going to be countered just a bit more with a potential of variety of openings.

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Orc already is massively imbalanced why are they listening to these insane apes for even more buffs lol, its already easiest free 2k mmr race in game


This guys are listening to low MMR trolls that are so bad, that they can’t keep their heroes alive, and they are listening to the biased Remo and his wannabies, that was 2 elfs and a HU, who never won a game against Happy, and he is angry as hell.

They literally want to toon down Happy, cause their chat is hating on him, cause he is Russian. And Happy is winning majority of the tournament, but he owned the game with reverse race on ShowCup as well.
So he is level above the others, and they want to totally destroy UD race, so Happy to be tooned down, absolutely pathetic.

But what is more pathetic is Blizzard is actually listen to this streamer, that are so bad at the game it’s unreal.
Neither of them is even 2000 MMR. They can’t get there, cause the are so bad.
It’s ridiculous. They literally killed the UD from the game.

UD was struggling against Orc and Elf, and now Orc and Elf have new strategy of play and huge buffs, and UD gets only Nerfs.

Why the hell you are nerfing UD expansion and buffing Orc one, when UD need to invest heavily and that slow their tech, and their play big time ? They need tower, they need to upgrade the tower + they need Necropolis, and their base + the HU one is the most expose, where Elf just hide their workers, and Orc have burrows to do the same.

Orc also have a free expansion from the shop at T3. Why you are reducing the Great Hall time? They have free expansion on lvl 3.
Elf can expand anywhere on the map, their tree can be safe and just to be moved around to the gold mine, and they can tech fast and build everything without being slow down, and need to invest.

How about nerfing them, and not the UD ???

Absolutely terribly patch, because of few cry babies that play other race, did you expect anything?

You should know better, and not listen to feedback from players from other races.
Absolutely pathetic patch.


And BM has literally 3 Godly skills now. Critical is crazy good, Wind Walk is crazy OP, and now Mirror Image is insane, and you can no longer ignore the Mirror Image.
It can also be seen to chase and kill low hp units.

DH is also absolutely broken now.

Why in the blue hell you are giving this 2 heroes, which are the strongest hero in the game, BUFFS, and make all of their 4 skills insanely good?
BM Ult is crazy. DH ult > best in the game, and literally can solo tank everything in the game for free.
And now they don’t have a bad skills.
While there is still plenty of unplayable hero in the game.

And if you going to give Elf and Orc heroes top notch 3 skills, how about to buff Unholy Aura, and rework Death Pact, h, cause it’s unusable in 99,99% scenario.


Most changes doesn’t make sense at all. They literally copy/paste from UD haters on Remo podcast, that all of them are trash players, 2 Elfs, and a terribly HU players, that get trashed so bad, he hates on UD for free.

It’s not just the most fragile, but you slow your tech HUGE TIME, when Elf and Orc can expand without slowing their tech, and their army potential.

HU and UD can’t do that, and also need to invest heavily. And UD workers are so fragile and easy to harras + you need to invest heavy. You need Sacrificial Skull to just build tower in there, you need a tower + upgrade on the tower, you need Gold Mine + you need Necropolis.

Also UD Gold Mine is easily killable, because you haunted a Gold Mine, you are not build a TOWN. It has the least HP of all, and it’s hard on Gold and Lumber.

This patch literally DELETE the UD from the Pro scene, and actually from any scene.

Even though Human is like <<< UD, they Korean humans won 120 very often. I agree that Happy is better than these three with the current patch. However, if the games were balanced, the two top human players will be as good as the two top uds players.

Exactly. UD is officially dead.
Now even if you 2 tiers above your opponent, you can’t do s****.

And all of this … listening to Remo, who never in his life managed to get to 2000 MMR, and clearly doesn’t know a s****.

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