Warcraft III: Reforged PTR - Version 1.35.0

PTR Discussion and Bug Report
#312

A counter argument to that is that infi and th000 stopped playing HU cause of balance. Ofc they not playing makes the race even weaker, but they are not idiots, they won’t play HU when the balance is like this.

I agree that Happy is the best player atm. But his win rate is ridiculous, even for a dominant player. In 2022 he faced Lyn 8 times on Bo5 or longer series, Happy won 6 times, Lyn won 1 time and they tied once. I do think Happy is stronger than Lyn atm, but a 6-1-1 score is a larger difference than it should be (in my opinion, which of course may be incorrect). The score against moon is 7-3. This one is closer, but being 4 series up is a clear dominance. On the other hand, against 120 is 4-4. The records against lyn and moon should look more like that one, they should be something like 6-4 or 5-3, not 6-1. The 7-3 score is not that bad, but it is bad if you consider that it is the best record of a non undead player against happy on 2022 (I think soin also has a 7-3 or a 6-3).

As for the humans, it is true that chaemiko and sok are not at the lvl of happy and lyn, but if you watch their games or streams you can tell they are very very good. They should have way more success than they have. On 2022 chamiko didnt even took a map from happy on series. He lost 4-0, 4-0, 4-0, 3-0 and 4-0. Sok only took a map on 2022, he lost 4-0, 2-0, 2-0, 2-1. Again, for me that is a larger difference than it should be. Im not saying they are at the lvl of happy, but they are on a lvl that should allow them to take more than 1 map (between the two).

2 Likes
#313

… I dont know what blizzard people of done now, but I’m losing an insane amount + gaining an insane amount of mmr per loss and win … almost 200 mmr after 2 disconnects + I win almost 100 after even winning against much worse opponents.

oh man …

#314

happy won 50! series in a row in show caps, where players played different races. He played elves and humans and orcs. and? It makes no sense to make a balance for one player. If the undeads are such a wildly strong race, play them, be the second happy.

This chat is useless.
I remember the last patch note:
“Spell Breaker armor reduced from 3 to 2.
Developers’ notes: The goal here is to try to get away from mass Spell breakers in Human Mirror.”
They balanced the Mirror. Where is hum/hum now? I haven’t seen this mirror in 10,000 years.

1 Like
#315

Buddy, you don’t make the rules. Everyone’s thoughts on balance matter. Both the greatest War3 player alive and the worst one.

#316

I’m sorry you feel that way, but I’m very serious about my opinions at all times.
Do you not understand what an EXAMPLE is? It’s a concept where we use one thing to help illustrate another thing. That’s what I was doing. It’s not trolling, and your unwillingness to read just shows how little closed minded you are and how little anyone else should value wh at you have to say. Especially if you think only some big name authority figure’s opinion is the only one that matters.

I used LoL as an abstract example of how balance is, can, and should be discussed. Maybe you aren’t aware of this but the entire MOBA genre was born from Warcraft III. It isn’t unreasonable or illogical to use such games as an example when discussing approaches to balance. Balance is an abstract topic that affects almost any competitive game genre. Especially when discussing methodology, the specific game is almost entirely unimportant.

If the only person you accept balance points from is “Happy,” then I fear for the future of balance in this game, as a sampling of opinions from across the spectrum of skill in this game should be observed before making balance decisions.

Of course, having said that, all of our opinions are basically irrelevant, even Happy’s, because Blizzard will just do whatever it wants.

Finally, just because you don’t like someone else’s opinions or posts, doesn’t make them trolls. Trolling is a deliberate act designed to ruin other people’s experiences on a forum. I’m just here discussing topics and giving my opinions, which is what forums are for. You’re free to agree with or disagree with whoever you want. But people aren’t trolls just because you don’t like them or disagree with them. If you don’t like what I have to say, by all means, please use the ignore list.

#317

Yes, and only lost to undead. Its not just cause of one player.

#318

120 also win Lyn and Moon lots of times. Also what is the point of nerf banshee when both 120 and happy rarely use banshee. UD players across all levels rarely even build Temple of the Damned in the first place. With the current 1.35 update, all other UD players will have no way to play this game, while happy and 120 continue winning titles. UD have to finish game within 20 minutes, or will lose. All the balance update that nerf UD after 20 minutes is meaningless. UD is already the worst race after 20 minutes, UD’s opportunity window is 12-20 minutes, when lich get orb of corruption, that is it.

#319

Overall, this game has lots of depth and unfortunately real balance require way too much effort and skills, given how tiny the number of people play this game. If Blizzard keeps listening to that 2 EU twicher and their community, they will destroy this game. 1.30 balance is fine, 1.34 is slightly worse but still fine. 1.35 ptr is seriously a joke. If they really want balance, only slightly adjust the number, do not create something new. I know it is fun to see something new, but this game is very complicated, without great amount of effort, new stuff will quickly become neither imba or useless. And given how tiny number of people play/watch this game, will blizzard give that amount of effort? No. So better not create something new.

#320

I agree, I don’t know where they got the idea they needed to change so much. The balance has not been that far off, even after the previous changes made. The PTR patch messes with stuff that I’ve not known people to have any real problems with.

1 Like
#321

You are not considering that banshees are one of the last game supports undead adds. Is like saying that inner fire rifles is weak because its not used very often. I think that banshees are a bit strong (at least vs hu), but most games are decided before the undead can reach that, so we do not see them.

Even if AMS is not strong, its a tier 2 spell with no counterplay. I think that changing that is ok. Maybe keep its power (although I do think is a bit strong) but allow a counterplay. Im ok with a hero ultimate not having a counterplay, but I do think all unit spells should have one. At the moment there is no way around AMS. Possesion is also a good spell, but already has a counter play. You can use staff or focus the banshee. Having a counter play in most cases is the correct way to do it.

1 Like
#322

To Blizzard, I understand this game Warcraft3 have a tiny pool of players, so there is nothing to lose with these random changes. I, along with many people on this thread, is not suggesting to nerf/buff a certain unit because we happen to use that units/race. I am suggesting that you guys avoid make random changes, without give a reasonable thought.

I just give one example: The statue Spirit Touch mana restore reduced from 3 to 2. Undead player across all levels already rarely use Banshee or Necromance. Now with this update, both banshee and necromance is dead, no one will use it. And undead will force to even more rely on lich as hero because only lich can restore magic without statue. Statue is the only way UD restore magic, all 3 other races can buy potion from shop in tier1. With this change, UD which is already the least versatile race in terms of strategy, are forced to become even more lack of choice, concentrated on the single combo of DK/Lich/Fiend/Statue/destroyer/Orb of corruption. You see, one change, can have so many impacts. And all other nerfs you made to undead, is meaningless. Because the appear rate of banshee, Abomination, Necromancer, frost Wyrm, Meat Wagon is very low, at best 10% in total. What is the point of making these already disappearing units even more unusable?

I know it is still a testing/beta version, but at least give these changes a thought before releasing, to avoid people laughing.

1 Like
#323

PTR Build 19805

We’ve just updated the PTR with a new build. Reminder: all updates are subject to change. Please keep in mind that some of these changes are more experimental than others.

Balance

General

  • Reverted Tavern revive cost 5% increase.

Orc

  • Reverted Headhunter lumber cost from 30 to 20.
  • Headhunter build time increased from 20 to 22 seconds.
  • Blademaster Mirror images damage increased from 10 to 15% of the Blademaster’s base damage.
  • Great Hall build time reduced from 150 to 140 seconds.
  • Brute Strength bonus reduced from 150 to 125 HP.
  • Farseer Feral Spirit mana cost increased from 75 to 85.
  • Farseer Chain Lighting mana cost was reduced from 120 to 110.

Human

  • Siege Engine armor reverted back to fortify.
  • Siege Engine targeting change reverted back to only structures.
  • Animal War Training reverted back to having Castle requirement.
  • Orb of Fire damage reduced from +10 to +5.
  • Orb of Fire cost reduced from 325 to 250.

Night Elf

  • Immolation mana drain per tick increased from 5 to 6.
  • Immolation damage was reduced from 10/15/20 to 8/12/18.
  • Druid of the talon crow form mana cost reduced from 50 to 25
  • Druid of the claw starting mana reduced from 125 to 100

Undead

  • Lich Frost Nova Damage reverted back to 50/100/150
  • Lich Frost Nova now has a damage cap of 400/800/1200 (8 units)
  • Lich Dark Ritual cooldown increased from 15 seconds to 25 seconds
  • Haunted Goldmine build time reduced from 120 to 110 seconds

Items

  • Circlet of Nobility toggle functionality change reverted (Will give +2 to all stats again)
  • Wand of Mana Steal reduced from 75 to 65

Improvements and Bugfixes

  • Added additional zoom levels (1750,2100,2250)
  • Can now view other players’ profiles from arranged match history
  • Fixed an issue where if you zoomed out too far on specific maps the player would lose visibility
  • Fixed an issue where quitting a singleplayer game sends the player to the load saved games
  • Fixed an issue where saving a custom campaign resets string data
  • Fixed an issue with Custom Campaign loading screen text being misaligned
  • Fixed an issue where the custom game list names bleed into the ping category
  • Fixed an issue where the editor would crash upon saving a campaign without a map opened
  • Fixed an issue where the world editor would crash when editing the damage/defense table
#324

ty for FS buff. dont need the wolves around tier 2 timing anyways #chainlightningwaveGG

#325

… Why revert Headhunter changes? Like adding two seconds for their spawn time is going to change much in general…

4 Likes
#326

However Patch 1.35 turns out after meta settles, BIG PROPS to the @Warcraft3 team for how they handled the Patch.

Drop Iteration
listen to community feedback
Adjust
Drop new iteration
Repeat

That’s way better than 1,5 years ago when we had the last balance patch

5 Likes
#328

When are you fixing the custom game lobby chat bugs?

  • When someone changes player slots the chat deselects, whether it’s swapping, leaving, manual changing, or joining.
  • The chat doesn’t always update.

And more stuff which I wrote before but I cba repeat for ppl who don’t read.

#329

20 years of playing Warcraft 3, and I just learned that Wand of Mana Steal saps 75 mana, thanks to these notes.
(now reduced to 65 in this PTR).

Always thought it was 50… O_o

Also, why are they NERFING immolation ?? As a non-NE player who absolutely HATES the DemonHunter, this change baffles even ME…
Honestly… WHY? O_o
I’d be happy to see actually a BUFF to immolation, as long as the DH gets nerfed in other places, to compensate… :smiley:

#330

Stop with this nonsense please, UD worse race after 20 minutes lol. The fact UD can bully Hu, Orc and NE on one base while the others almost have to have an expansion just to stay alive is ridiculous. UD needed a nerf and you know it xd

2 Likes
#331

You read the patches notes wrong, immolation got a big buff. The tick damage is now every 0.5 seconds not every 1.0 second now, the damage was essentially doubled.

1 Like
#332

I’m glad to see a lot of the more wild changes are gone. Tweaks are all that are needed, not conceptual revamps of things that have been in the game forever.

1 Like