The Immolation mana drain is per second, not per tick. War3 has 8 ticks per second.
The tool tip is still wrong for Immolation. It’s damage is per .5 second, not per second.
With the way it’s currently going they will revert everything back to 1.34 lmao
2 Likes
Well, given that you think UD is so good, why don’t you use UD? I play Orc as main option now and have fun. Only small complaint is 40% of match is orc mirror, which I still find it a lot easier than UD vs Orc.
And when my Orc face UD of similar MMR(similar level), it is so easy. I know the opponent UD have only one way to win. I have so many methods to stop the opponent get into that way. Just to mention one way, I can just have blademaster and just keep building Fortified armor tower starting tier 2, across the gold mines on the map. And when UD use up his only goldmine, I build whatever I want to finish the game.
Or I want to finish the game earlier? Just load 1.35 PTR and get Mirror Image blasdemaster with 15% damage.
Or Opponent complain I only use one hero and build tower and expand? replace tower with pure Raider units and enjoy unlimited Ensnare. When I see the component UD, use unlimited Ensnare to trap opponent DK at one spot, press 1 for my group, right click to attack DK. Done. DK is dead, the rest of UD group is a piece of cake now.
Only complain is only 1 out of 10 games I can see one UD.
I can comment whatever, just like anyone can comment whatever, in a respectable manner.
1 Like
Fix the freaking FPS Problem caused since 1.33, it is due to SD GFX being rendered on CPU instead of GPU on hybrid GPUs
So i’ve spent hours playing the PTR and training my heroes (I have a sequence where I go around the map, collect money and train my heroes, I’ve reached ~50 full cycles which means roughly 50 full upgrades for str, agi and int to each hero).
Latest PTR update decimated all my saved games, but not only that - it reset my stats also for the acts that I did make it to, so my heroes start from their basic stats and without chen.
Update: I’ve decided to uninstall everything and requested a refund.
The solution to this is to disable the integrated graphics so the game can’t use it.
Immolation is still over power.
please consider changing 12 units cap selection at once to 14 (mass gargs &ghouls)
tinkers level 6 gets immunity for the whole rest of the game. nothing to counter it ( imba )
Good changes!
UD:
I believe Lich’s dark ritual cooldown nerf is too big, it needs to be the same 15 sec as it was. It mostly needs just a nerf towards restored manapoints, like 33/50/75 % of mana gained. As lich almost always works with a dark ranger, whose skeleton minions have a lot of hp and give a lot of mana, especially with DR’s lvl2 Black arrow. Dark arrow creates 215/290/405 hp skeletons which provides lich via dark ritual lvl 1 (33%) with 70/96/134 mana, lvl 2 dark ritual (66%) with 141/191/267 mana, which is rly strong, like free manapotions. This 66-99% lvl 2-3 dark rituals are too strong for an intelligence hero whose mana is restored thx to his natural mana regen and obsidian statues. This nerf of cooldown can just destroy usability of the spell.
NE
I’d love to see a slight Taunt cooldown buff for Mountain Giants, like 7 sec vs 14 sec- current, maybe a slight hand damage buff too.
ORC
Headhunters still need to cost 30 lumber, 20 is too cheap. 22 seconds buildtime is kinda ok, but I’d make them 24, probably.
Feral spirit nerf is okayish, but I’d do it 90 mana, as 85 mana spell doesn’t change much with an intelligence hero. It’s the hardest thing for a human in the early game to somehow counter those wolves, which provide a lot of dmg and dmg tanking.
I’d love to see blademaster’s agility revert buff - 24 agility from 22 to see it more often rather than Farseer and headhunters.
HUM
Would still love Animal War Training upgrade at tier T2 to see more human strategies like mass air (it can really help vs wyverns of ORC) and better knight timing vs UD.
Also, as an experiment, I’d give the building fortification upgrade at T2 ability to change armor type of towers to fortified, so they don’t die instantly vs ud T3 destroyer push or vs orc’s wyvern push. Maybe the upgrade might last 30-45 seconds so the ud or orc have a small window to break the expansion/towers before the upgrade is done.
make headhunter cost at least 150/30 … please ffs
2 Likes
Another STUPID PATCH
Lich is a quite balanced hero, change for what? Same as Haunted Goldmine?110sec？
Blizzard, you do think undead imbalance?too strong? Huge Operability required to undead player, even in 1.34 (except Happy Eer0), normal player is hard to deal with the game. undead MUST BE STRENGTHEN, SO WEAK for player except Happy Err0.Understand?
Also, orc became more and more ridiculous Headhunter,Blademaster…(in many way)
1 Like
Hi Blizzard devs and dear w3 community.
In my opinion, the last 3rd iteration of the patch is much better than the previous one. Here is feedback from a W3 map maker (based on aggregated sentiment about balance from many people in the community). By the way, please update the maps, since you are using versions that are 1 year old. I’ll only focus on things that could be reconsidered or improved since the core part of the patch is good.
General
- Altar Heroes Gold cost reduced from 425 to 400.
This change is unnecessary. It is Remo’s idea whose reasoning is tavern hero timing is too strong. If there is such tavern hero, please nerf that hero, not all of them. Also, such change weakens solo hero play (Warden, Potm, Dreadlord, …).
Many people in the community think it is a good idea to reduce altar time revival, so the suggestion is
- Decrease hero revival times in altar from 36/72/107/110/… to 35/70/105/110/ …seconds (or even 34/68/102/110/… seconds) for levels 1/2/3/4/…
HUMAN
A good direction to buff human is to buff their 1-base play (which would indirectly buff the fast expo as well). What can it be achieved with? Faster tech, stronger 50 pop army, cheaper upgrades. Here are some comments and suggestions.
- Blood Mage. Decrease Banish mana cost from 75/60/50 to 70/60/50.
Since Blood Mage’s Siphon gets nerfed, he can get a little compensation with Banish. - Spellbreaker Control Magic moved from T2 to T3.
If this is the case, the research time should be decreased from 45 to 35 (or even 30) seconds. - Mortar Team HP increased from 360 to 380.
This change is unnecessary. Mortars play a big role in HU vs NE, which is decently balanced. With NE nerfs, this will be an overbuff for HU in the late game. - Staff of Sanctuary cost reduced from 250 to 200.
This change is unnecessary. HU gets buffs (while other races get nerfs), especially in the early game. Staff is a powerful late game item worth of its cost.
Two changes to suggest for HU:
- Decrease the cost of T2 and T3 upgrades by 10 lumber from 320/210 to 320/200.
This speeds up HU tech by a few seconds. Helps all the build orders. - Remove Imbued Masonry upgrade from the game.
The third masonry upgrade is too much and isn’t necessary. Also, the change fits the theme: ORC has two spike upgrades, HU has two lumber upgrades, NE has max 7 armor for all buildings.
NIGHT ELF
-
Keeper of the Grove Entangle duration on units reduced from 9/18/30 to 8/16/24.
This may be a bit too strong of a nerf. Going for 9/17/25 would be a safer choice. -
Keeper of the Grove Thorn Aura increased from 0.1/0.2/0.3 to 0.15/0.30/0.45.
This makes aura too strong on the third level. The important levels are first and second, that is why changing from 0.1/0.2/0.3 to 0.15/0.25/0.35 would be a better choice. -
Demon Hunter Immolation damage was reduced from 10/15/20 to 8/12/18.
Please use damage per second in the patch notes and tooltip, since we get confused when comparing old numbers with the new ones. New immolation does 16/24/36 damage per second, which is still high comparing to 10/15/20 dps that we had. Some players rather see it reduced to 12/18/24, but have the activation cost reduced, say by 10 mana. The latest change: 6 mana per second drain cost is good. -
Priestess of the Moon Starfall cooldown reduced from 180 seconds to 120 seconds.
This change is unnecessary. Starfall’s ult cooldown is fine. Potm’s ult would benefit from increase in damage from 50 to 60 per wave and reduction in duration from 45 to 30 seconds (matching all other channelling ultimates duration). -
Druid of the Talon Crow form now does piercing damage.
This change is unnecessary. NE has already two flying units (hippogryph archer and faerie dragon) that have piercing damage.
What do we accomplish with this change? The only difference is that crows in theory will be able to counter destroyers and will stop countering flying machines. But NE still probably prefer making faerie dragons against destroyers because they are magic immune with much more hp. On top of that, if you give crows high piercing damage, you will be already buffing the strongest NE strategy against UD.
It is a very good idea to make crows a playable unit. What is needed for that?
– Crows could become useful situationally giving mobility to talons, so the cost change of the transformation from 50 to 25 is a good one.
– Crows can become a supporting caster unit that scouts and gives vision. For this we could bring the Mark of the Druid upgrade to T2, requiring Adept upgrade for it to be researched; decrease its cost from 25/100 to 25/75.
- Druid of the Claw starting mana reduced from 125 to 100.
This is a strong nerf. If applied there should be some compensation for it. For example:
– reduce the time of research of the Master Training by 5 seconds.
– decrease the cost of the Mark of the Claw upgrade from 25/100 to 25/75.
One changes to suggest for NE (in place of entangle’s serious nerf):
- Revert Faerie Dragon’s Mana Flare buffs. Decrease max damage from 100 to 90.
Decrease damage per mana from 4 to 3.
ORC
To me, one thing to keep in mind when balancing orc, is to keep the orc mirror balanced in terms of BM+grunts vs FS+HH openings. I think with this (3rd edition) of the patch makes it to be in a good place.
- Blademaster Mirror images does 15% of the Blademaster’s base damage.
Some people like this idea, some people don’t. What are the cons:
– Mirror Image is already good spell: it removes all debuffs, takes BM out of focus, tanks with illusions, allows to scouts, etc. And now, we want to give it damage.
– Will BM become a hero to fast creep in early game with this change? No.
– Also, the description that these are BM’s illusions looses its sense. With the change we introduce the discrepancy between Mirror Image and Wand of Illusion. On the top, the change raises the question whether mirror images need to give experience.
In short, for such a small change, we are breaking a well-designed and placed spell from the game. In order to see mirror image more often BM needs mana for that, that is why many people think a possible alternative buff could be:
Remove damage from the mirror image. Reduce Mirror Image mana cost from 80 to 75.
- Blademaster Bladestorm cooldown reduced from 180 to 120 seconds.
This change is unnecessary. The ultimate cooldown is fine. Blademaster even with 180 seconds cooldown rarely has to mana to cast 200 mana ultimate. A better change would be to reduce mana cost of the ultimate from 200 to 175. - Great Hall build time reduced from 150 to 140 seconds.
A strong buff, especially for ORC vs HU. - Grunt Brute Strength bonus increased from 100 to 125 HP.
I agree that grunt should get a small buff. Instead of buffing their hp by 3% (from 800 to 825) with T2 upgrade, an alternative would be to buff their damage by 2.5% (give them +0.5 dmg, increasing it from 18-21 to 18-22) from the start of the game. Giving grunts +0.5 damage will help ORC with grunt openings and is a a pro-active buff.
One change to suggest for ORC:
- Reduce Spirit Walker build time from 38 to 35 seconds.
Spirit Walker has by far the longest build time for 3 food units. ORC playbook would definitely benefit from this or any other Totem tech tree buff.
UNDEAD
Undead is the hardest race to balance because of Happy’s and 120’s performances.
- Haunted Goldmine build time increased from 100 to 110 seconds.
A strong nerf. Increasing the build time for 5 seconds (from 100 to 105) should be enough. - Obsidian Statue spirit touch mana restore reduced from 3 to 2.
A very strong nerf. All Undead strategies rely on statues (CL, DL, nercomancers, …). Obsidian Statue is the core unit for UD in all matchups. Please consider reducing the nerf from 3 to 2.5 mana. - Banshee Anti-Magic Shield can now receive the same summon magic damage inflicted by dispel, purge, and abolish magic.
Making AMS dispellable is a strong nerf. Banshees gives UD a possibility to play 1-base with 2-base. If AMS to be nerfed, instead of radical change, we can start by reducing numbers: reduce the amount of spell damage blocked from 300 to 250.
Small buff and nerfs to consider for UD:
-
Reduce Death and Decay mana cost from 250 to 200 and duration from 35 to 30 sec.
-
Rod of Necromancy. Increase the cost from 150 to 160. One charge will now cost 40 gold. Skeletons are very good for the value they provide.
-
Ghoul. Decrease Cannibalize research time from 30 to 20 sec.
The long duration of the upgrade research abstains UD from even considering it. -
Gargoyle. Fix Gargoyles’ Prioritize ability, synchronization across multiple units.
-
Frost Wyrm. Reduce the cost of the Boneyard from 175/200 to 150/200.
Decrease Freezing Breath cost from 150/275 to 150/250. Add Frost Attack icon.
Note. One-time expenditures for UD. Shouldn’t increase the strength of massing wyrms in 4vs4. -
Decrease Creature Carapace (armor) upgrade cost by 25 lumber for all levels.
The cost of armor upgrades for UD are too expensive. The upgrade will slightly help crypt fiends to survive burst damage from fairy dragons, headhunters, etc., if researched.
ITEMS
- Wand of Mana increases mana steal from 50 to 65.
Still a bit too strong, especially when a player gets such item (in a mirror matchup) in an early game runs to you and remove all mana from your hero. - Legion Doom-Horn and Ancient Janggo of Endurance movement speed bonus reduced from 0.075 to 0.05.
This change is unnecessary. Auras have already been nerfed. Races that have highest chances to find such items are HU and NE and when they find them, they want to feel the movement speed difference (closer to 10% or 15% of Unholy and Endurance auras).
NEUTRAL HEROES
Two changes to suggest:
-
Firelord. Decrease cast point (cast time) for all Firelord spells from 0.67 to 0.5 seconds.
Increase Soul Burn damage from 5/11.11/17 to 6/12/18 damage per second.
Decrease Volcano mana cost from 200 to 150.
Firelord is an underused hero with weak spells, so he can get some love and attention. -
Naga Sea Witch. Reduce Mana Shield activation cost from 25 to 10 (or even 0) mana.
A buff for an underused spell that quickly depletes Naga’s mana pool.
5 Likes
Hi i love new ptr changes and game is going in term of balance in great direction.
I just want to suggest to add some new changes to 1.35 ptr that could make game even better…
General :
Hu :
Paladin :
Increase Paladin Movement Speed from 290 to 320
Siege Engine rework :
So my suggestion would be (something similar to Thor in sc2) that is single target long range anti air ATC (piercing DMG) that could counter Destroyer …
Siege Engine would be easier to make and also harder to kill due their high HP and it would make HU vs Und match up little easier for human…
Orc :
Troll Headhunter revert a nerf (30 wood cost to 20 wood) 140 gold to 150 gold
Troll Berserker :
Berserk ability nerf :
|Duration|:|12 s|nerf to (10s)
|Attack Speed|:|50%|-nerf to 30% (or 40%)
|Movement Speed|:|20%|
|Damage Taken|:|40%| or revert to 50%
Troll berserker s are bigger problem then troll headhunters and there is op part of the headhunter unit.
Tauren
Reducing the gold cast from 280 gold to 250 gold
Movement speed buff from 270 to 300. (they are to slow)
Reducing Collision Size : 48 to 40 (they feel clancky similar how Ultralisk zerg in sc2)
Removing or reducing cost of Pulverize from 100g 225w to 50 g 200 w or100g 150w
This unit need some love.
Witch Doctor
Stasis Trap Ward rework (change)
|Duration 150 s to 80 s
|Activation Delay 7 seconds to 3 sec
|Detection Radius 175
|Detonation Radius 400 to 200
|Stun Duration 6 (2.5) seconds to 4 sec
|Hit Points 100 to 80 hp
Size of the radius affected by stuns should be half-fed
Make it more useful and less all or nothing ability (if it hits its op and if not its useless )
Blademaster
Miror image (nerf) now cost 100 man instead of 80 …(25% dps is ok but ability mana is to low so its to spam.
NE :
Druid of the Talon (nerf)
Faerie Fire : Armour Reduction from 4 to 3 -(or 2)
Cyclone cant target hero units (similar to human Polymorph) its to annoying to play against and its kind op…
Faerie Dragon
Nerf base demage form 13-15 to 10-12 (or even 8-10)
You should not be able to mass one spell caster unit (this unit like every spell-caster unit should be support unit not main dps unit)
Chimaera
Reduce build time from 65 sec to 55 sec
UND :
Meat Wagon
Exhume Corpses upgrade removed
Exhume Corpses are now automatically Researched when you build Meat Wagon.
Frost Wyrm
Reduce build time from 65 sec to 55 sec
Crypt Lord
Decrease Impale mana cost from 100 to 90
Pit Lord
Doom ability buff Doom guard its indispensable similar to new Animate Dead
Ty for reading this are only few suggestions so we could try out for this or some new patch…
- Blademaster Mirror images damage increased from 10 to 15% of the Blademaster’s base damage.
- Great Hall build time reduced from 150 to 140 seconds.
- Brute Strength bonus reduced from 150 to 125 HP.
You listen to grubby to much dude dint play one game of PTR when he proposed those changes…
Blademaster Mirror images damage 25% was ok but its mana cost were to low so it should be 100 mana instead of 80 …
It was to easy to spam and with the MI dps it was to hard to spot who is real BM…
Great Hall build time 135 sec were fine and give one more option to easier expend for orc … 140 sec GH will do nothing to help orc t2 expo…
Brute Strength bonus reduced from 150 to 125 HP again 150 was fine but 125 will be ok to…
Revert at list 140 sec expo to 135 sec and orc should be able to have one more option to exp 140 sec is to much still to hard to expend for casual players…
- Circlet of Nobility toggle functionality change reverted (Will give +2 to all stats again)
- Wand of Mana Steal reduced from 75 to 65
Again this is Neo feedback Circlet of Nobility 1.2.1 was good change 2.2.2 is op item on lvl 1
You could make it that Circlet of Nobility your hero main stats is 2.and secondary 1 so its not clickable.
Most of pro players and casters want that game stay the same in all of the games from Fortnite to OW to wc3 you need to stick to your principles and not always listen to those ppl and experiment with the game …
2 Likes
bring Reign of Chaos mode back you thieves
4 Likes
I do like most of your suggestions. But let me comment on your comments (specially on HU vs UD). One base HU is playable vs ORC, and almos playable vs NE, there you do not need much. The major problem vs UD are (at least) the following four related problems
- HU does not have a decent catch vs UD. Only stormbolt, which is not nearly enough vs aura, coild and frost armor.
- HU has the slowest army in the game.
- HU base defence is way too weak on later stages. In a blink of an eye u lose 4-5 peons (around 400 gold) or even more. So you have to instant TP if u get attacked (specially vs UD, vs ORC or NE u may counterattack).
- HU can not attack undead. So you can not close the game with timing attacks, nor counter the hit and run attack with a counterattack.
If you only had one, or maybe two problems may be manageable. But all this combined makes it impossible to play 1 base vs UD (if the UD is smart enough). I am not sure this can be fixed without breaking the other MUs.
I think the 10hp buff to peons is correct. It’s a 4% buff. If we had a patch every 2 months I would agree with you, first lets try 2% and then we go with 4% if 2% is not enough. But that is not the case.
I do like the nerf to statues. Players realize more and more the power of mana. So statues are stronger than 3-5 years ago, not because they are stronger as a unit, but because mana is more important than before. It’s a big nerf indeed, but so were the multiple brilliance nerfs and didn’t break the game. The difference is that they are doing all the nerf needed in one step. Again, not optimal but the only option is the patch once every 12-18 months.
I also like the lich nerf. I think you either have to make the lich not as strong at lvl 4-5 or not viable as a first hero who can expand (maybe is ok if it is as a first hero that can not expand).
Finally AMS. It is a tier 2 spell with no counter play. I do like that they are giving a counter play option for that. Seems reasonable that a hero ultimate does not have a counter play, but not a tier 2 spell of a unit. Regardless of the power of AMS. Goes to the game quality more than to balance. Then we can discuss if AMS protects little or much, but I do like that you can dispel it.
4 Likes
oh, ok, thanks.
It’s just the way the Notes are formatted – makes it terribly difficult to comprehend…
Notice how they didn’t erase / overwrite – they just wrote it all over again, with the new changes to the old changes… but NOT repeating the non-changed old changes… LOL !! 
1 Like
I see your points. I really want to see HU back to be a strong race.
I am fine with
(1) 10hp peasant buff;
(2) slightly nerfing UD’s early game. That is why I am suggesting increasing the cost of the Rod of the Necromancy. I’d also reduce the duration of the slow from nerubian tower by 1 second.
(3) giving AM extra 25 hp for more durability. This can be accomplished by changing his Strength/Agility/Intelligence bonus from 1.8/1/3.2 to 2/1/3 per level.
This will give AM + 1 strength starting from level 2.
(4) I am fine with a few more minor Lich nerfs (early or late game);
(5) I’d look for ways to give more lumber to HU to tech faster and get hero levels faster.
But, I disagree with statues nerf. They are not strong as Brilliance Aura. They have cooldown. They don’t give mana when they are on the move or when they they attack a target. The area of effect is much smaller and works only on 6 units. On top of that UD pays for each statue 200 gold and 35 lumber, plus they take 3 food from your population. Statues are backbone not only for the DK, Lich, ghoul/fiend/destro meta play, but for any undead strategy. This is a nerf across all UD matchups. That why, I think statues are not a good target to nerf.
Also why do we make AMS dispellable? I may be wrong here, but HU will now destroy UD when getting to gryphons. Why not agree on a smaller number for AMS first (say reduce from 300 to 250) and see if it is enough. We don’t have to use such a structural and radical change right away to balance the game. Banshees is the unit that makes UD’s 1-base with HU’s 2-base possible.
And yes, I am with all of my heart into making the game balanced.
4 Likes
Heres my Orb of Fire suggestion
Instead of changing the gold cost or the dmg number, give the orb the following effect:
25% Chance to cast a undispellable slow on the target.
Should also affect magic immune units like dryads or destroyer since all other orbs also do affect them.
This would solve the biggest human lategame problem - hit and run
5 Likes
So it has some counterplay. Goes to game quality and gives less skill cap to the players. Then we discuss the power of AMS. Maybe it should take 70 or 80% damage from dispel (although I think 100% is ok), but having a counter play seems healthy. As an undead you can precast AMS. If the HU dispels it, UD will have to recast it. I think this change makes AMS harder to play, but that’s ok, atm almost 0 skill is needed to use AMS. A consequence of that is that AMS is even stronger at a lower level of play.
I don’t think this will make gryphons unstoppable. It’s not a common/strong strategy atm. And mostly tempo based. I think it will make it more viable, but not dominant. But I may be wrong about this.
I agree that banshee is a unit that makes 1 base vs 2 base playable, but I dont think this is ok. As for late game balance, you either have to aim to be a MU with an equal amount of bases, or MU to be played 2 base vs 1 base. But you can not have both without causing an imbalance. If you want an equal amount of bases, the UD late game army needs to be nerfed (at least vs HU), or the HU late game army vs UD buffed. If you aim for 2 base vs 1 base you need to nerf UD expo, so they can almost never take a FE vs HU, as it used to be.
I think it is ok if a 1 base player defeats a 2 base player as long as the 1 base player has some other advantage to compensate for the economic disadvantage. A good lvl hero difference, or maybe a tech advantage. But that an UD in 1 base with 70pop has a decent chance vs a HU on 2 bases with 80pop, (both on tier 3 and with similar hero lvls) is part of the problem. This translates into HU almost never defeating UD when they have a similar economy.
3 Likes
I can’t believe the HH cost has been totally reverted. This nightmare is going to continue.
And I’m not sure about changes for frost nova. It’s still the most powerful offensive spell in the game which is capable of disabling human army and economy.
At least the tanks are still going to keep their place as a niche unit ¯\ _ (ツ)_ /¯
6 Likes