Yes, that’s how it will be, and how it should be. The concern is if a strat is too easy to execute, we’re going to have pala/rifle part two. Where the game tells the average player, “ok! Dance for the game to stop A-click Andy!”
Just because something is counterable, doesn’t mean it’s peak balance.
I think if Tauren get Resistant Skin by default they shouldn’t get the reduced Pulverize without researching the upgrade.
What’s the principle here, do you understand? A strong strategy emerges, people spend a long, long time looking, but eventually find a counter-strategy.
What’s the Elves’ principle right now? Undead came up with a strategy involving a push with Nerubian towers. It’s not an unbeatable strategy, just interesting. But what did the Elves do? They whined until the Nerubian tower got nerfed. Just like that—20 years Nerubian towers were unchanged, and suddenly they’re considered OP.
Humans endured Elves for a long, very long time. They struggled greatly to find a solution, and eventually discovered the pala-rifle strategy. And how did the Elves respond? They whined until Huntresses got heavy armor. What is this? I’ve had enough; I’m leaving this ward
The direction of this change is not to make them OP but make game more interesting. Elf will able to use other units and play T2. Nobody wants huntresses everywhere. If you will read my second reply to the patch I’m assuming that they require more nerfs.
The idea is not to make OP unit, the idea is that t1 should support T2.
Nobody wants to buff bears or dryads. Everyone understand that they are good. The problem that this is the only way to play almost except mirror where trash units fighting trash units 
There was a lot of strategies invented in the last 2 years from many very cool NE players. Like expo as 3rd building LUL and many other things. The problem was almost the same - times is moving and you have to build bears
I’m really looking forward to you reducing the Mountain Giant’s food cost from 7 to 6. Taurens are currently way too strong in comparison.
Also, you had already planned to reduce the Mountain Giant’s food cost to 6 a year ago — please make sure to follow through this time.
I’m interested to see where this PTR will take games. I’m looking forward to new high level games.
No, no,it’s the Anti-Elf lobby never sleeps and keep your Never-End Torlling.
NE have 0 AOE-anti air units( HUM 2 ORC 1 UD1 and+1 after this Patch)
The universal unit you defined cost 4 food and it’s HP unnormally low because Acher’s HP is used to exchange Elune Grace. With orc Wind Rider EXP drops down, the unit become relatively more miserable and become your attacking target.
I found you kinds really like kick off widow‘s door. As if you can not live with out Torlling.
So the unit can be easilly wipe out by any AA. And always need extra protection.
The amazing unit had been nerfed in both Physical and Magical damage.
So you really good at and skilled to kick off the door and Torlling the victim.
OK please use the fourth (top-tier anti-air unit with huge range and attack) or any NE air units combination you like to fight massive Flying Machine. The Flak Cannons will teach you what is top-tier anti-air unit instantly.
Double check your Math before false claiming anything because such action will lower your own credit. Well maybe you can not lower things doesn’t exist from the very beginning. So you are free to go and kick. I hope the day you being kicked back come later than industial standard. Good luck.
The idea is that the balancer is stupid (sorry).
Let’s analyze his decision about air units. He thinks Elf air is weak—then buff only Elf air.
But instead, he nerfed air units of all other races. Did anyone think about how these other races will now play against each other with the new air balance? Suppose Wyverns were balanced not only against Hippogryphs but also against Hawks, Rifles, or anyone else. Or what about Gyrocopters—how are they supposed to fight Batriders now? Did he think about that? Or is his goal just to buff Elves so these incompetents finally become top 1?
Dude, that’s a lot of meaningless text. Show me actual games where Elves genuinely suffer from air units consistently every cooldown and can’t do anything about it. If there are no series of games like that, then your text is empty
The compromise on the Huntress buff was reasonable. Though i think an alternative way to balance it would have been to move sentinel upgrade to T2 and give it the heavy armor portion of the buff. While increasing the cost of sentinel to 100/125 and research time to about ~55. Moon Glaive would get its research time increased to about ~45.
Human and Orc seem to have a decent understanding on how to counter the new Huntress. Though it seems Undead isn’t confident in Nercomancers and rather try to tech to destroyers. I’m not sure what Necros need but maybe they could use a lower attack cooldown like ~1.65 and maybe an additional point of attack.
Please remove this change since it will break many many custom maps. Many of the mapmakers of such maps are long since gone and/or the maps have been finished and no longer receive updates.
There are many communities, that still bring new players to Warcraft III to this day, centered around various of these older maps, or specific types of maps, and such change would be a big blow to them and to Warcraft III itself as a consequence.
Lmaoo history revisionism ? Pally rifle is a tactic considered meme tier in high level play… UNTIL the buffs happened to paladin and rifle, devotion aura, rifle hp, AND BLACKSMITH LUMBER COST REDUCTION.
Many many buffs to push human and suddenly it is very oppressive because blood mage has always been oppressive. Meanwhile 20 year of bear dryad because anything else GETS NERFED FROM OTHER WHINY RACES TOO. Anything else ?
Please reconsider the Frost Nova range reduction. The Nova change will create asymmetry between Coil’s casting range and Nova’s, causing a disruption of the kit’s coherence
Coil Nova is the only fun thing about Undead.
Nerfing the range of a core Undead spell like Frost Nova is the harshest change Undead can receive and will create asymmetry with Coil’s casting range which is also 800. It directly affects both usability and tactical viability and is hated by every undead player I spoke to. This decision feels especially unfair, considering you reverted the range changes to Mana Burn, which the majority of the community widely regards as one of the most toxic abilities (even after giving NE gamebreaking buffs).
Just a reminder: we have heroes like Blademaster with 300+ crits, Tauren Chieftain, Shadow Hunter’s Hex (also 800 range, instant), Paladin’s Holy Light (also 800 range and instant), Staff of Sanctuary with infinite charges and carriable by 3 heroes, and Mana Burn, whose range was reverted. Night Elf received gigantic buffs, Orc has received gamebreaking buffs across all modes with virtually no nerfs, and Humans—despite being the second most nerfed race after Undead—have kept most of their strongest tools. One might expect a that nearly broke 1v1 to face harsher nerfs, but Holy Light retains its range and cost and Siphon now only has its Area of effect nerfed. The latter feels justifiable due to its toxic nature, but it doesn’t seem fair that Nova receives an equally harsh punishment out of nowehere without meriting it. Why is Frost Nova, a core mechanic of Undead receiving such gigantic nerf that will create a core imbalance and a mechanical dissonance in Undead’s kit which will create an asymmetry between Coil and Nova and will change the dynamics of every single interaction that Undead has. It’s odd that Mana Burn gets treated favourably but not Nova. Lich first doesn’t even see plays anymore vs the other 3 races. Moreover humans with their siphon nerf, are compensated with major buffs and a potentially game-breaking undispellable Orb able to be carried by 3 heroes. I don’t mind these buffs per se, but I just don’t appreciate the inconsistencies and the harsh treatments Undead always gets every patch with Nova range breaking the last straw.
Undead players have watched the Lich receive one nerf after another over the years. This latest one could be the final blow. In 1v1, the Lich is already no longer picked as a first hero—and in FFA, this change will be devastating.
Even FFA players who don’t main Undead have voiced concern. They point out that Frost Nova, along with Death Coil, are the only truly viable tools available to Undead. To quote one player:
“chasing armies/hero killing is Undead’s primary identity in FFA.”
Here’s a video as well as a thread with detailed community feedback from the FFA perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrw8CyRWgUo&t=110s
PTR Patch Notes - FFA Perspective - Warcraft III: Reforged Forums
On a side note, the Frost Wyrm changes are appreciated—they have been underwhelming even in FFA. But if further Undead balancing is your goal, please consider alternative adjustments—such as reducing the charges on the Ritual Dagger—instead of touching Frost Nova. You have already drastically nerfed Anti-Magic Shield (which already can be dispelled), and increased the cast range of Priests—which will impact the UD vs Hu matchup. With the reduced Nova range, Lich will be even more vulnerable to Orc ensnare and hero lockdown. Currently, the Undead vs. Orc matchup in FFA is completely broken. To reiterate, this is emphasized by well known FFA pros who don’t even main Undead. Check the link above for more detailed info.
The Lich has already paid his dues in previous patches—don’t take away the only thing he still has. It will only further reduce Undead’s popularity and make them even less fun to play in every game mode. Coil-Nova is the only truly enjoyable thing Undead has—by design. They are an iconic duo of spells that should always remain with a symmetrical casting range, otherwise it will disrupt the kit’s coherence and create a mechanical dissonance. Please don’t treat the UD fanbase like this and don’t ruin the core component that makes people play Undead. I will remain hopeful.
That said, here are some bugs:
For reference regarding the Classic DK Arthas model:
https://imgur.com/95KYuIU
And finally, the campaign still suffers from a bug where some units become invisible—even after reloading the save file. Many popular streamers have encountered this while playing the campaign. Also, you still can’t save in custom games, and trying to do so results in a blank UI.
I’m deeply in love. The leash range is annoying indeed, but the cast range is fine. Perfect change.
A mediocre PTR3. Nothing too bad but the game will not great again by this patch.
Why? Let’s review in depth and ring a bell.
PTR3 section
Well in fact they are hard to balance and seems bad in drop pool. OK
Right. The core OP point is not rated to the casting range, just like what I had posted in PTR1.
Right Direction to make the orb useful. While there are worries about the change will crush old maps. I trend to believe the game will decline if their voice Ignored.
Inaccuracy. The skill is leading in Mana cost and the spell do arrive at target faster than DK’s Death Coil in most case. The 5.5 is showing a kind heart to baby care. However Unhealthy to the balance but somewhat acceptable. Because this maybe the best value we can have. In the eyes of BLZ, the 0.5s maybe already a great heartbreaking sacrifice. Thank you Blizzard.
The change itself ok. Nothing Wrong. Well really heartbreaking. Fortunately, I say thank you Blizzard in time.
Right.300 just too toddy as I had post in PTR change.
Reconsiderable. Where is Master Grubby? I often disagree with his balance opinion but this time emm… I think he is the man who can save ORC.
Mistak… Oh sorry the TO^2 Revolutionary change not reverted.Then it’s my mistake. Right change here.
OK, As I had posted in PTR1 now its fair to give RS by default.
If this is HUM unit BLZ would had given RS to MG many many years ago.
Moreover they will even give newcard like Photosynthesis Skin to allow MG recover very fast in Daytime.
Not too bad but I think it would be better make Knight Huntress and frenzy 120 have same move speed. That would be Fair.
Completely support the first 2 changes here. While for the third line, this is a reconsiderable point in Numeric.
=END of PTR3 section=
All Changes HUM section.
Not hit the true point–>Siphon Mana recast cap–> 10Mana 6s.
Repeat this number in mind.See how this Mega Bloody Pala Meta play opponent hero like accordions by using opponent’s Mana.
If the two numerical number not nerfed Severely, like 25Mana 12s , the game will decline and struggle to have a chance to great again.
Don’t angry here please refer to what blizzard had done.
Ring a bell
1.04 2002-11-04
Mana Burn cooldown reduced to 7 from 9.
Mana Burn mana cost reduced to 50 from 75.
Mana Burn drain amount reduced to 50/100/150 from 100/200/300.
The Siphon Mana also need to be cut down at this rate if 10mana 6s not changed.
Or the decline and early deadend of the game will be Inevitable.
Mr.Grubby I believe now it’s your show time for saving ORC and saving the game from this Madness abyss. Within my knowledge range, you are the only hope for people who need a balanced game right now.
All Changes ORC section.
Delete of this change is a reconsiderable choice in my view. Let’s try 350 as a middle point.
All Changes Night Elf section
Somewhat Simplified after PTR2 will be Torlling endlessly by patients of elfphobia with countless false claiming. Because there are Revolutionary changes in the list.
My advice too Door Kicker: Stop your meaningless paper or pepper work, try actual test the changes in PTR sever.
All Changes UD section
Same with PTR3, Frost Wyrm change well defined, but range buff over 50 should apply with caution.
In conclusion
The patch do adding some cool feature and make the game better.
But obviously powerless ahead of a urgent balance crisis caused by Siphon Mana. As long as the Siphon Mana recast CD\mana and rifleman attack speed\building time not fixed accordingly, (I mean you can just change one side to balance it) the decline of the game will not stop and warcraft3 will surely end in a grim future.
It’s still not too late to make a right Historical affordable Decision but the door of destiny is closing. Everyone who really love the game is watching, the Bloody Pala-R Meta or the Balance of the game, which side will you stand, make your Non-regretful choice. Blizzard.
Ring a bell.
The designed in charge is definitely an elf player. I bet 100 bucks with you.
Humans are still facing many debuffs. Human players are already struggling against Elves. Please consider the following changes:
A very long time and I’m aware of all of the points you’ve made. Let’s talk about them:
2) Orcs have burrows yes, but they have to walk to them and they die in 2 seconds to anything. (They’re also not mining gold while they’re burrowed)
3) The ones in the gold mine are protected, yes, but the ones that aren’t are by a wide margin the easiest to kill and NE has more stuff that requires lumber.
4) Humans can turn militia, yes, but even though they gain armor they still are easy to kill and when they’re militia, they can’t mine gold. Every time a Human player calls militia, that’s a loss (really delay but it’s technically a loss if you don’t mine out- an advantage either way). You don’t even have to kill any peasants (or peons) to do damage to the Human player if you can provoke them to militia. For these reasons I find the advantages you frame them as having to be wildly overstated. Additionally, millitia can only be called in your main base unless you upgrade your expo to keep, due to an ages old change (And if you have to rebuild your main town hall, it won’t call militia anymore either unless you upgrade to keep)
Also while UD don’t have a special building or a way to power up the acolytes, your basic food building is also a tower and in my experience you thus naturally find more towers in a UD base compared to the other races just from the convenience of simply upgrading something you have to build anyway.
plz change the way Cryplord armor works, it’s currently really hard to balance since the armor and reflect damage act as both offensive and defensive choices; it should be a pure defensive passive.
The nuke meta as been on for a long time now maybe its time for a more tanky Undead meta. All the tools are there they are just not as good.
priest is the worst healing unit compare to other race now since the old old patch of 0 sec cool down healing change to 1 sec delay. why dont make priest heal more to +50 hp per cast instead of +25 hp? why i say this. and priest often the primary target that 100% die most of the time compare other healing units race
undead statues heal +10 surrounding all units! and dk aura regen
elf bear heal 400hp in a short period
orc healing ward heal surrounding all units. simple just pop a few healing ward and its hard for enemy to target it from afar.