Hi i am old school wc3 player that switched from wc3 to sc2 due stale meta (mass talons 
) lack of new content and on…So i am planning to go back to warcraft now…
So let’s talk about Upkeep why we should remove it or at least test to see how will play out affect the gameplay.
Upkeep mechanics was originally created for keeping less units on the screen for game to perform better.
But right now we have better computers so we can support more army on screen action.
Upkeep gameplay right now is providing more micro based army vs army actions on 50 supply while punishing (choking) macro part of the game…
In my opinion removal of Upkeep mechanics from the game will provide (KEEP) same early game micro intensive battles but on other hand will expand macro side of the game rewarding expending more,batter upgrade use (for army) and provide more exciting large army engagements (more action packed gameplay in general)…
One more point if they don’t decide to change it they should at list made expanding in wc3 more easier for all 4 races…
At list we should be able to test it to see how it goes if it have negative effect on gameplay (micro) then just revert it …Ty for reading i hope this game have 15 more years ahead… What is your opinion ?
5 Likes
No. I totally disagree and here’s why.
The upkeep mechanic is not only to limit the number of units on screen, it has a huge strategic impact to the entire game at a fundamental macro-management level.
Choosing whether to enter upkeep is a huge strategic choice.
Do I go into upkeep for a big timing push? If I fail my push I’ll lose the game because I lost so much economically.
Am I being hit with a timing push? Should I wait to enter upkeep and try to hold them off as long as possible so that my economic advantage grows and I can defend the attack and win the game?
That’s the simplest example I can give but literally the entire macro-management strategy in this game is based on upkeep.
To remove upkeep seriously would wreck the entire balance of the game and dumb down a huge portion of strategy within Warcraft III.
Let’s not do that ok?
24 Likes
First thing thanks for your feedback and opinion…
Second i will agree with you it will change some strategies but on other hand we will gain more strategies..I don’t think we will lose early game strategies due this change but instead we will gain even more macro strategies and keep micro early game…
The gameplay should be mostly based on maps : for example maps like Echo isles would be good for promoting micro side of gameplay with only one expansion.(early aggressive gameplay)
Maps like Lost temple, Turtle rock, Twisted Meadows, would be great for long macro intensive games.…
So my point is instead of Upkeep mechanics the MAPS should be main reason why player is going for macro build instead of micro early game rush push and so on…
At the end of a day we could just test it on PTR or something and see if its good or bad for the game thats it … i dont think its that big of a deal…
This would absolutely ruin the warcraft online experience. This change would be one of the worst things they could do. The upkeep system should never change
6 Likes
No. I 100% am against this. Upkeep is essential for keeping armies small. Having a large army should be something special. This will literally turn the game into every other RTS game ever. Why not max out if there is no penalty? Every game will be about who has a better economy. Terrible change.
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Upkeep is definitely a fundamental aspect of thia games strategy, as far ladder goes it should stay.
That said there should be an in lobby option the host can change to remove upkeep in custom games.
3 Likes
Do you want to play the game as it was originally intended and hoped for, or do you want to play the game with the limits forced upon the developers?
I am in favor of getting rid of upkeep. Like it was said, upkeep only exists to limit the number of units on the screen. If the original developers didn’t have to worry about the pc limitations of that day, then we wouldn’t have upkeep. For those of you arguing that there is an essential macro strategy surrounding upkeep, its a symptom of its original intent… not a strategy that they really wanted. By getting rid of upkeep and the 12 unit select cap, better strategies will be born. Those of you arguing for keeping the upkeep mechanic is like arguing for keeping a 6th toe that makes wearing shoes very uncomfortable. (most people that are born with an extra toe and decide to keep it have serious health problems and are physically limited). Today it’s easily removed and allows the individual to do so much more.
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And your income, which is a mechanic of the game. So removing upkeep tiers would change gameplay.
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It may have started that way, but it has since grown to be a fundamental part of the game. There wouldn’t be any more strategies without it. You can still have large armies, you just have to invest on it and secure your income - it’s only fair. Upkeep is one the features that makes Warcraft 3 special, along with heroes.
The unit selection cap, on the other hand, doesn’t really bring anything real to the gameplay, it just restricts you by forcing you to click two times as often.
2 Likes
That is definitely something they should test out to see how it goes, I doubt it would improve the game though.
It would change the early game dramatically, it might nullify the importance of hero advantage and creeping.
Also, it would benefit human far far FAR more than it would benefit undead or orc.
What about adding more gradual upkeep levels instead of just 2 polarizing upkeeps? So instead of 10-7-4 we would have 10-9-8-7-6-5-4.
2 Likes
Upkeep is a core part of the game. I am all for changes but this would go too far IMO.
I would rather see the max total units increase and the upkeep be moved around than see it go.
I like the Idea of upkeep. but do feel it can be very brutal at times (especially to beginners)
What if high-upkeep just meant less resources were mined, IE in high-upkeep you earn 4 gold, but the mine only looses 4 gold per worker instead of 10
Definetly test it and a mode to remove it.
If the people are happy with playing the old school way, I don’t see why they should tick the box in the first place.
Upkeep is integral to the feel of WC3.
I’ll just say that the game isn’t meant for macro play especially since the goal is to not throw away units to feed the enemy EXP. You always want to balance your army size and upkeep plays directly in managing that limit. You rarely want to mass over 50 worth of T1 units in early game anyways, so upkeep isn’t really that much of a limitation. It’s a softcap, and it doesn’t stop Macro as much as feeding the enemy EXP does. Plus, removing upkeep means no punishment for having excess workers, which can throw the balance of certain races.
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I see nothing wrong with testing this in beta.
I think is good compromise would be to NOT loose the gold, but just reduce the amount the workers bring in.
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They should definitely test it so we could see what would be a difference.
If they dont change upkeep mechanic at list they could make expending more easier it takes to long to expend in wc3…
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One thing I dislike about LotV specially is how unpunished expanding is. Whoever expands is already miles ahead if the other does not and it is common to fail to punish. I like that in war3 expanding can be punished heavily. I dont think Upkeep removal is needed also the game is Micro game not Macro game like SC2. I play both games and I dont need to see kiting Rifleman, expanding games as some suggest by changing things that t hey took from SC2
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Wrong
Also wrong
Please go stay in StarCraft this game is clearly not for you. Because the game you describe is pretty much a StarCraft game with heavy macro control, most races are good with early expansion and micro plays are just rewarding but macro is most important.
Why would you want to turn WC 3 into Starcraft 2 is beyond me. I love 1 expansion and low keep-no keep strategies and if you don’t there is simply a game for it. There is no need fo 2 Starcraft games…
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No. 1) Upkeep is basic wc3 mechanic. Do you want to delete heroes or creeps or mercs? They are basic mechanics too.
2) It’s strategy decision. Mb upkeep isn’t so crucial in solo, but play some ffa games. And in solo you can have 50 limit and do upgrade (without upkeep you would make units), buy items (without upkeep you would make units), buy mercs for fast increasing army… Or make units. Mb units win, mb upgrade+items win. Without upkeep units win. Boring.
3) Economycs in wc3 is simple. 5 worker on gold, wood isn’t important so much after t2. Upkeep is economic mechanic, so it make economycs of wc3 a bit deeper.
4) You want big limits? Ok, just buff expand strategy. 1 main + 2 expos = 80-100 limit fights. Even with upkeep 2 expos give you many many many gold for your units. And mb increase max limit. No delete upkeep mechanic.
1 Like