Three Versions of the Campaign = Everyone's Happy!

General Discussion
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I back this, When Reforged was announced, I imagined they would somehow follow that plan but nope, they cut what was already promised. I don’t care wether the game is going out in a month or two, or in a year or two as long as they honour what was promised to their customers. Speaking of the plan, it would be the best solution for all types of players, old and new. If the Warcraft 3: Reforged team is going down that path (And I hope they will). It is obvious that it will take time to provide that but i’ll be more than fine with that.

“A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad.” Shigeru Miyamoto

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yes please

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Funnily enough this is what I was asking for when I originally found and started posting on this forum.

But over time I realised, that working on 3 campaigns which is only a tiny portion of the game is just a waste of development time.

The MAIN BULK of the game is multiplayer battle net functionality.
Whether that be Melee competitive matches or custom matches.

I would much rather them focus on getting EVERYTHING other than the campaign working 100% – as these are the things that have kept Warcraft 3 alive for this long.

And I really can’t wait to see what kind of maps come out of Reforged :smiley:

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I wonder how they ran out of time when the large chunk of the development(unit models) was outsourced

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Also this thread is worth a read @Lionhearte :kissing_heart:

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So, you must not be paying attention. Read the very first post of this thread.

Yes, we know you’re trying desperately hard to spin this (it’s just part of development! durr durr!) but the fact remains, as was stated BY YOURSELF AND BLIZZARD, that these campaign changes were rolled back, including dialogue/camera angles. Further, they’ve already begun rolling back changes:

x_https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/638831862445244438/640901837465321472/unknown.png

Clearly changes were reversed. You trying to spin it is laughable; you cite feedback as the reason for the changes…

And if you read the very first post, you’d know that the whole purpose of this thread was feedback/suggesting they do all three modes, because regardless of whether or not it was promised, they still went through the effort of redoing The Culling from the ground up, creating expectations, and halting/reversing plans, using “feedback” as an excuse to not do so; when the entire purpose of this thread is pointing out Blizzard’s BS excuse when they could have easily done what was originally planned and make everyone happy by simply offering three modes.

And don’t even try to use funding as an excuse. You have two options. Either Blizzard lied or they are incompetent game designers who, instead of offering MORE, they offered less.

So which is it?

  1. Blizzard lied.
  2. Blizzard is incompetent.
  3. All of the above.

I have no idea how in your heads you managed to create this illusion that it was a completely new campaign in between warcraft 3 and wow.

No one said that, ever. Lmao.

The feedback here isn’t for new campaigns, it’s for the new voice actors, cutscenes, etc, that were removed. Here:

  • Classic Version - The standard campaign with the old graphics
  • Enhanced Version - The standard campaign, but with new HD graphics
  • Reforged Version - The campaign in HD, with new lore/voice acting/cutscenes

The VERY things they rolled back and repeatedly said as such, AGAIN, here:

X_Warcraft 3: Reforged is more than just a remaster of Blizzard’s classic RTS - Polygon

x_https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/638831862445244438/640901837465321472/unknown.png

Weird, if THATS the stuff that was never planned, why did they randomly add it in and take it out? Oh, duh! Because you and I aren’t talking about the same thing.

Don’t waste everyone’s time by replying again, lmao.

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Since you like to quote Grubby so much:

Here he mentions 8 missions being significantly upgraded ‘with new cameras’ etc.

I will quote it again. Pete Stilwell the man himself said in the DeepDive:

If you won’t listen to the project lead then idk who you will listen to.

Our voices WERE heard after BlizzCon 2018. On this very forum.
Again read my last post.

Do you know what a vertical slice is? :wink:
That my friend was one for Blizzcon 2018.

Never said anything about money here.

Where did I say they never PLANNED? Plans change as development reaches deadlines. Not my fault you can’t live with that.

Only one of us is insulting the other here.
Just shows you are not capable of having a discussion where you can be proven wrong without resulting to becoming a kindergartener.

And

I was referring to Tyrande in this thread but sorry I forget you don’t read what other people are writing, and only take in the parts you wish to.

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Then you’re simply missing the point. We know what we’re getting against we aren’t. Do you?

I’m bringing up the incompetence of the developers. Obviously since may have expected all maps to be remade like The Culling was, which I agree was never said, yet clearly things were removed, primarily being voice lines. And with voice lines comes different cutscenes, different unit interactions, new lore. This is the problem. Instead of scrapping it (like they said they did, in those same videos/ quotes, they could have simply kept what they had, done other maps like that, and offered it as the Reforged campaign.

Yes. YOUR voice was heard. And ours? Well here we are, and you’re the one complaining about us? Blizzard already heard you. We want our option, too.

“But but!” It was already done. Explain the justification for reverting changes. And if you say because of feedback, I’ll ask you why they couldn’t deliver a 3rd option.

YOU KNOW, LIKE MY FIRST POST SAYS?

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You realise that for the vast majority of the playerbase hearing the older voice lines triggers that nostalgic magic?
Hearing that 'Something need doing? ’ ‘Work work’ or ‘Yes m’lord’ or ‘Ready to work’ IS Warcraft for a lot of people.

Changing the voicelines is a HUGE deal.

They listened to feedback and went back on it.
If that meant they had to scrap making new ones, and it made sense to do so. Sure I get it.

It’s really late or I would go and find the part in the DeepDive where they spoke about new animations for nearly every unit in the game.
Also spoke about how when Arthas was gesturing he would use his casting spell animation for everything, but now how he has completely new animations for everything.
So in many ways we will still be getting this.

I am simply complaining about your side of the line spreading misinformation.
Especially when you go into all these threads claiming you were ‘promised’ something, when you clearly as seen in my above posts. Were not.

Warcraft 3 story has been the same for 17 years.
They said in one of those articles it has a perfectly good story and feel no need to change it.
In light of the fact that they listened to feedback, and that they were no longer going to change voice lines.

People like the original voice actors, and they like that nostalgia they get from hearing them.
Changing a 17 year olds game audio is mostly a bad idea, because it will take that nostalgia element away 100%.

I feel for you.
But I also feel the way your side is going about this is completely wrong.

You should be asking for new expansions or new missions to be added in the future. You know after Reforged has released.
I am sure they will be welcome to doing it down the road.
But for now are focusing on other stuff.

But my stance is that they should not make any retconns.
They should find another way to do it.

Anyway 5:27am for me I am off to bed goodnight!

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Yes, I understand the nostalgia. That’s why I said 3 versions of the campaign. Read my first post again, because you clearly didn’t.

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Then which voice lines would they use for multiplayer?

You can see the problems that will cause.

Goodnight!

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We have this thing called toggles. Goodnight!

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Great post, I pretty much agree with everything. I really hope they add the cut content after they release the game, or hold it back to finish it. Quite a shame it all went up in flames. At least I got to see the new Kel’Thuzad model.

Not a fan of your use of that word in a derogatory sense. I love debates, but you basically undermine yourself when needing to use such attacks.

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They scrapped the cinematics, and then said it was based on “divisive feedback.” Literally everyone wanted cinematics redone, nobody was salty about that.

Them rolling back the scale of what they plan on delivering doesn’t genuinely feel like it has anything to do with pouty purists, and more to do with a looming timeline…

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Well I just wanted to point that out as cleary that is not clear to everyone here…

There WILL still be 3 different versions of campaign (Classic, “Enchanced” and Reforged) just that Reforged ofc is going to lack lot of things that were originally planned, but it still WILL have some differences/extra to the original campaigns

As for getting defensive, I would say more like being passionate about my favorite game of all time…but sure, call it what you want.

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Well first of all they NEVER promised new campaigns to begin with. But yes, new voicelines/over was scrapped (according to them because complaints from fans, which I honestly doubt, I think the real reason was budget/2019 deadline and same goes for added in lore, new/remade cutscenes). I honestly think they bite more than they could chew and as result they had to backtrack on what they had originally planned, because they are for one reason or another really not allowed to delay the launch of the game. Again I strongly suspect that ultimately all of this comes down to the Reforged team’s own resources not being big enough and that their higher ups at Activision-Blizzard dont really want to add in more staff/resources into Reforged for obvious reasons (its not gonna be profitable to put too much effort into remaster/remake of 17 year old RTS game, rather than focus on new stuff)

Personally Im only disappointed about the cutscenes not being remade like the Stratholme/The Culling demo cutscene was last year, but I couldnt care less about the new voice acting or lore retcons/addons. Besides some of the Reforged maps will still be remade and will even include some of the characters in those maps that were added into the lore later (like Kael’s father).

So you are still getting your Reforged campaign, just not with re-recored voice acting with WoW’s voice cast (and thus not added in dialogue/extended/added in custcenes for characters like Jaina or Sylvavnas) and not the entirely remade cutscenes, although the cutscenes will still include improvements like character gesturing/more lively animation, new camera angels and better lighting effects.

I understand why some might feel “robbed”, but Im still for most parts happy aside from those entirely remade cutscenes being scrapped and still have my pre-order in place.

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I would be open to new voice cast in any entirely new campaings (that likely wont be ever happening) or Warcraft IV (again even less chance of happening), although ofc I would hope that they would try to get as many of WC3 voice actors to return to their roles as possible, but I know Blizzard would likely not do that. Anyhow I could deal with the new voice acting in any future WC RTS campaigns as long as the writing itself is good (and most importantly better than what it is in WoW at the moment). And like Ive said I dont think the voice actresses or Jaina or Sylvanas in WoW are doing bad job, quite the opposite, but other than that I wish the old voice cast could return to their old roles from WC3 days.

But ye, either way Blizzard made their decision about not re-recording the voice acting for WC3: Reforged and thats that. Personally I think that if there HAD been free choice to choose between voice actors, it would have been the best option for everyone, but Im atleast darn glad that if it was between replacing the old voice work entirely or choosing to keep only the original voice work, that they chose latter.

Well idk about that, but I do know that remaking all the cutscenes like they did Stratholme one still would have required propably more time than just 1 year. Re-recording voice lines could have been done in year certainly, but on other hand if they wanted to add in any extra ingame cutscenes to go along with those, then that too would have taken more time and those extra few cutscenes would have had to go along with the rest of the remade cutscenes.

Anyhow I personally strongly believe that while it would be nice to think that we “purists” could take all the “credit”, I honestly doubt thats the case and there are some budget/resource/timeline related issues behind it all. I mean I want you to think very carefully about the recent events with Activision Blizzard and think would they be willing to add in any extra resources to Reforged team to make WC3: Reforge as good as it could be for everyone? I doubt that, In fact I get the feeling like they are forced to rush Reforged out because they are demanded to move on to other projects already.

Also @Lionhearte you said that “This is the type of player who gets tower rushed early and smashes his keyboard in baby rage” about me, yet here you are raging/insulting everyone who disagrees with you :smiley: Perhaps time to look into the mirror pal…

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Sorry, but there is no ‚Warcraft III‘-story or the ‚World of Warcraft‘-story… it‘s simply the ‚Warcraft-story‘. You said ‚it has been the same for 17 years‘, yes. Why not adding additional dialogues, to improve things? And it‘s not about changing any story elements, just adding some new content. A conversation between Arthas and Jaina. Some new ones, like Anasterian Sunstrider in Quel‘thalas. That won‘t change the story. It simply add something new to a good, but as you said ‚very old game‘. Back in 2002 they could not imagine how big this story was going to be and don‘t care about some untold sentences and if they could do any cause to the future. But now they do! Why leave something behiend that could be an addition feature to your favorite game?

And again. ‚Warcraft III has been the same for 17 years‘. Yes. It‘s time to change that!
Expand your loved game!

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GOD i hope they do this, i dont care if they delay the game, if it’s just added, or if they do it later down the line. hell i’d be okay with a mini expac/dlc that adds a wowified campaign. or a free update.

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Awesome argument dude.

Are you even aware of what they did change?

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