This game won't survive if they don't polish the movement

General Discussion
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I heard that they want the Reforged and classic players to be able to play together. So I’m assuming that means they won’t polish the incredibly clunky movement. That is a bad idea if they keep movement the same new players will be turned off by this. The pathing NEEDS to be polished in order for this game to get a growing community the movement is so dated.

EDIT: I am not talking about blocking. I think blocking is an important strategy to this game. I’m talking about the movement needing to be smoothed out.

EDIT 2: Let me emphasize that the improvements I’m hoping for aren’t as game changing as you may think. STOP using starcraft 2 as an example it’s weak. I don’t want this game to feel like starcraft 2. I’m talking minor improvements in the AI to improve pathing. I still want this game to have slower movement and blocking. I do NOT want swarmy movement that Starcraft 2 has. The rifle man kiting arguement is weak because the change wouldn’t have an effect on them moving slowly>turning around>loading a shot and firing> turning around and continue moving

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Most competitive Warcraft 3 players like the unit movement and pathing as it is.
Maybe Blizzard could add an option for “improved” unit movement/pathing to the campaign and custom games.

For ladder and tournaments I want the unit movement/pathing as it is currently in the game.

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[citation needed]

And what is a “competitive” player? If you don’t mean everyone that plays 1v1/RT/AT, then why not?

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Everyone who seriously strives to play 1v1 or 2v2 on a high level.
Moreover, I also believe that most casual players who still play Warcraft 3 (melee mode) like the movement as it is. If they hated it, they probably wouldn’t still play the game. :wink:

The “clunky” unit movement is essential for the skill required to do intentional unit blocking, surrounds and good army positioning. These are gameplay aspects that the current competitive Warcraft 3 scene loves.

People who want more “comfortable” unit movement/pathing probably won’t play the game for a long time. They will quickly move on to a game they consider as more comfortable and more relaxing.

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I disagree, and I think this is the nub of the problem. If you can get all that with a new pathing system, would you still be annoyed?

Because you can have all that and better pathing if you deliberately design it that way. You don’t need to have wandering units or rectangular collision boxes. You can do fancy things with friendly-or-attacking vs enemy collision radii in order to preserve blocking & surrounds. And you can reduce creatures tripping over themselves with more frequent pathing calculation, which doesn’t impact anything.

Regarding army positioning, WC3 doesn’t need auto-get-out-of-the-way, and I don’t think many are asking for that.

Why aren’t the other 1v1/AT/RT players’ opinions worth considering? They’re playing and paying.

And I’m sure spectators would prefer not to see units tripping over themselves or weird unit collisions.

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LOL
This game survived for almost 20 years without any of your “improvements”. If you don’t like the game’s core features, don’t play it.

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I have a deja vu feeling here. Maybe I’ve responded to the same before? …

Because if you are not a high level player (though even some lower level still understand that), you will not understand why the current pathing matters.

Yes ‘sure’, casters would hate.

And because forums are generally the hideout of the worst players who have no clue, and i already read that judging by what posters play here( theres your evidence) so you don’t see many others disagreeing with your kind of posters because they don;t want to bother knowing the nature of forums, and I should follow them too soon.

I know for snowflakes the idea that someone is better, knows more , understands more is seen as toxic, repressive, but do you do so in real life too? When someone is better at sports, when someone is an expert towards you, when someone gets a job over you? You say nerf the life requirements?

I probably mentioned out of repeating myself, perhaps small friendly to friendly improvements, rather than changing how it acts on enemy, could be a fine compromise.

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Why aren’t the other 1v1/AT/RT players’ opinions worth considering? They’re playing and paying.

Because those casuals cry for pathing to be revamped, play melee for 2 weeks before quitting and who is left are the dedicated melee players who now have their game ruined.

If you think pathing needs a change you have absolutely no clue about this game.
No decent player has ever brought this up for a reason.

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I wouldn’t call it surviving buddy barely clinging on more like. This is the best made RTS and has potential to be so much more with tiny improvements. The graphics are already being worked on and if the movement can be smoothend out it can potentially be a huge game.

@Scratchyx3 I and my buddies that play this game are no casuals.

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Iv been playing this game since release, and I have always disliked the clunky movement

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I have been playing Warcraft 3 since like 2004??

Fix pathing/ clunky movement, don’t remove body block or make units automatically get out of the way perhaps.

People said similar things justifying not changing automatic mining in starcraft 1 re startcraft 2 since it ‘took skill’ to manage all of it. Stupid and tedious - these games need less of that to survive in the current market.

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OP is right.

If the people who love this game and are continuing to play it regularly want to enjoy playing in a small community with no seriously competitive scene a few years from now, they’ll get their wish if the pathing isn’t improved.

War 3 plays like garbage compared to more modern games.

Yes, we all understand that strategies such as body blocking have evolved around pathing, and we are all acutely aware of how the movement and attack animations feature heavily in play (e.g. preventing run and gun tactics that make melee units obsolete).

However, thinking that it’s an all-or-nothing issue, and trying to tell the rest of us that we don’t “get it” isn’t helpful. There’s no reason pathing can’t be improved and animations refined so that the game doesn’t feel like a clunky mess from over a decade ago and yet still retain the core mechanics that make War 3 what it is.

Games with smooth movement and better pathing (SC2) still have body blocks and surrounds. It’s not impossible to find a point where movement and animatons are improved yet still prevent OP run-and-gun tactics. It’s also not an impossibility to alter how units interact with allies vs how they interact with enemies. There are solutions to the issues that suit both sides of this debate. The game can play better and still play like War 3.

I’ve posted on this topic before. About a month ago I watched a pro match (Lyn vs. Moon) and witnessed an Orc rider bounce around between it’s allies for a solid 5 seconds before engaging in a game-deciding battle. It looked like I was watching a game with unfinished code - it was that glaring.

The reason I am on this forum right now, is that I just watched the same sort of thing happen on Grubby’s stream. An Orc rider took a full ten seconds to engage in a fight because it just bounced between allies when it had a clear path to the enemy. At one point it just stopped and sat in place for a second figuring out what to do. It was ridiculous. I’m sure Grubby didn’t even notice because of the scale of the battle and the intense caster / hero micro he was involved in but he may as well not have even made the unit.

That is not enjoyable to play. It’s not enjoyable to watch. It’s certainly a crappy way to lose damage in a pro-level match.

If “micro better” is the go-to response here, I’d suggest that asking players to make up for dated coding is a bit silly when the opportunity for improvement is right in front of us. Surely player efforts are better spent elsewhere and an audience isn’t interested in seeing how their top-tier micro can make the game play like any other game made in the last 10 years plays by default.

On release, new players will come to this game and older players will return. They’ll stick around for a while and then the numbers will plummet because they’ll realize how clunky this game feels and a couple of years from now the community will be right where it is currently.

I had hopes that wouldn’t be the case. I would love to see this game experience a resurgence in popularity that was enough to make Blizzard consider an expansion and for tournaments to be high profile events with a large community that supported a truly modernized version of a classic game.

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The reason why custom maps work is the old moving/pathing system, a more complex one would cause serious CPU hogging ala Starcraft 2, so most “big maps” would instantly die.

So no, I do not want a pathing change.

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So because you refuse to upgrade your computer you don’t want the game in general to thrive? LOL

Real matches >>>> Custom games.

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I think that there is room for improvement while preserving the core “features” of current pathing. Square collision boxes for units or units with attack command blocking other should stay. But when you just move your army around the map, it would be nice if your units don’t suddenly stop or take a weird paths. Or when your army is just standing still, they may let other units pass. This would not change how the game generaly plays, but it would contribute to general better feeling from the game.

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I agree with your post mostly because it talks about ‘improving the movement, pathing and without making gun kiting moves’ because this is what majority who ask for new pathing did not realize. If they can find balance in all that without breaking how battles and enemy units blocking behaves, why not? Question is can they do it?

yes SC2 has ‘unit moves in a blob of units, they make way to him’ kind of pathing to not get a unit stuck behind if friendly.
But SC2 has also the ‘Make 12 or 24 mutalisks look like 1 unit before they distances each other a little’. This is not only unrealistic but terrible for AOE too.
At least War3 uses formations, and the distance whether cause of pathing is much better.

And one thing will never be true - that mechanics or poor mechanics is the reason why players don’t play try hard modes. Casuals never play try hard modes, those that want to learn and master the game will do with current or newer pathing.

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The reason I am on this forum right now, is that I just watched the same sort of thing happen on Grubby’s stream.

Do you know Grubby’s take on pathing? He said “If they change pathing, I quit wc3”. I don’t have a source for this, but just ask him about it when he is streaming again.

Games with smooth movement and better pathing (SC2) still have body blocks and surrounds.

If you actually played sc2 in a higher league than platin you wouldn’t even try to compare sc2 to wc3. Sc2 feels different to wc3 in every possible way.

There’s no reason pathing can’t be improved and animations refined so that the game doesn’t feel like a clunky mess from over a decade ago and yet still retain the core mechanics that make War 3 what it is.

Improving pathing would completely annihilate balancing in wc3. Pathing and blocking being the way it is punishes players for massing units. It also lowers the effectiveness of melee units in general if you build too many. I know you don’t get that because you must be just another casual 50 apm player if wc3 feels like a clunky mess to you.

Can people finally stop arguing about things they have no fking clue about?

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xhttps://clips.twitch.tv/FurtiveGentleWrenBabyRage here

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If this is compatible with the original game… What’s the point of the project? I feel like this should be a whole separate remaster.

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Pro player says something but i don’t have source, ok.

That being said while I like Grubby if he couldn’t adjust to improved movement then that’s on him I would rather have a larger playerbase with tournaments.