It’s a joke to play Human against orc and night elf now: AM is weaker than Farseer/Kogt/DH and human basic units–footman (MELEE) cannot chase archers or headhunters (RANGED).
Human players can be easily beaten by NE/Orc players even having stronger micro: as the legend player INFI says, that is the reason he abandoned to play HUM: even orc players with 200 mmr lower can bother him a lot.
watch youtube video to see how humans dominate archers/hh easily
it requires way more micro/attention to run away than chasing especially if you are running away with several units
Human have worst global stat now.
They must be buffed
But move speed is too dominate, to buff t1 unit with that
It can be militia 45 sec. timer bring back buff
Arcane tower wood cost 40 from 50
And footmen can get +5 or 10 hp as maximum pssble buff
citation needed
Depends on your enemy. I can beat crazy computer without any loss. Just see currently any human players can beat Moon/Lawilet/Colorful etc… they play much better than any Hum players?
I used to really undervalue footies but they can do a lot more than it would seem like at first glance.
Easy to find if you watch any matches: go to liquipedia of warcraft and see the earnings.
Only one human player goes into the top 10 and ranks 10. Human players earned the least of the prize tool by race, after UD, NE, Orc, and RANDOM.
Never heard of this, but w/e.
Prize pool earnings are meaningless. Win rates by matchup are what matters. You can’t base balance perceptions on just the top 10 players. That’s called “way too small sample size.” There is like zero correlation between prize money earned and balance- in no small part because not everyone participates in every competition and different tournaments have different prize pools and distributions thereof. It’s taking water that’s already muddy and dumping more mud into it.
Data for the current patch is limited (theres been a number of balance changes) and I’m really not sure there’s been enough (any?) competitive events since the patch to come to any sort of conclusion like this. The best we have is the data from W3C.
But I’m really, really tired of arguments like this “the performance of the top 10 players means its unbalanced.” Unless you’re a top 10 player yourself that isn’t relevant. What matters is how balanced it is for the rest of us, not the top 10. People at different levels of play approach the game completely differently and what is or isn’t balanced at one level may be different at another level.
Big games with competitive elements don’t just balance for the top 0.1%, they balance for everyone. It is very common for a character or unit to be too strong for one group and too weak for another due to the fundamentally different playstyles between them. This is why you have to look at the big picture and not just a couple of the world’s best.
We do have data here, but it isn’t current, it all seems to be from patch 1.32 and not anything newer (Yay, I can post links again, thanks to all the haters!):
https://www.w3champions.com/OverallStatistics/winrates-per-race-and-map
Edit: I’m dumb, it does have current patch data. So lets have a look:
At the highest level (grandmaster tier) HU does seem to be underperforming, except vs undead. But below that, it seems to be doing mostly fine. It’s hard to say exactly where the issues might be, but what I can tell you is that this exemplifies what I’m saying: Different levels of play approach the game in drastically different ways and so it’s rarely so simple as “buff human!” because just flat out turning them up would likely lead to them being OP for the rank and file playerbase- and we all deserve good experiences, not just the top 0.1%.
in your opinion, it is necessary to focus not on the pro level, but on 3vs3 rt?
And its not hard, its very easy to say why human is so low at pro stats
This is definitely how balance problems are detected
That’s not what I said. I said it’s important to consider EVERYTHING. Not just the top 1%, not just the 10 people who play FFA, not just .
No, it’s not. This is how balance problems are detected for pros. Unless you’re a pro, you shouldn’t be looking at pro stats to judge balance.
It’s as I said: every level of play has its own balance needs- and it is in fact possible to address those specific needs without compromising the needs of others- it’s just a much more complex set of variables. You can’t just go “only X of the top Y players are human, they must be weak buff them!” because if you only look at that, you’re only improving the situation for those players. You have to look at all of the data, not just the professional people who play for money.
To help show how balance adjustments should really be approached, take a look at this summary image from a recent League of Legends patch (Yes, I know it’s a different sort of game, the principles of how you approach balance can be applied to any sort of game):
Now if you look at the Nerfs section, you’ll see little colored marks by each champion, and a key on the right. Those marks indicate the level of play the changes are targeted at. Some changes are designed to address issues at the pro level, while others are aimed at higher level regular player situations, and still others are aimed at low level player situations. Their goal in their tuning is to give everyone, not just the pros and not just any one segment of the playerbase, the best possible experience. One champion’s ability might be fine for pro play but too weak at low level play, for example. So they’ll make adjustments that don’t affect how high level players use it but make the experience better for the low end.
There are many cases where one thing is too good for one group while being crap for another. Balance is complicated. You can’t just look at a tiny bit of data (prize pools for tournaments) and come to any sort of conclusion about the state of the game as a whole.
Personally, for example, as a noob casual player, I don’t need buffs for humans at all, or any kind of balance changes at all. But just in matters of balance, you need to focus on the dry statistics of the top level of the game, and not on me, you, or players who go through a single player campaign.
Fine points of balance just matter there, at the top level of the prof. gameplay, not at the bottom or middle
If a player of an average or low level of play has some problems, there is always an answer for him - see the game of professionals.
And what would be the answer for professionals? In addition to correcting obvious problems in the balance
No, you don’t need to focus on the pros. The pros aren’t the ones giving you all the money for the product you sold. The rank and file playerbase deserves a good experience just as much as any pro does.
No. Just because there’s a problem at low levels of play, doesn’t mean it can always be explained away as a skill issue.
Pro players don’t just play better (they do)- they play different. Thus balance changes affect the game for these different groups of people differently.
League as an example again: Pro level league players aren’t just more skilled at pressing their buttons at exactly the right time and place. They approach the game entirely differently- Pro league players are very passive and only take fights where they calculate that they can both win and that will advance their side’s position. Whereas even at the upper levels of non-pro play, players tend to be more aggressive and take risks. They may have the mechanical skill to succeed, but their playstyle is different from the professionals. Same goes for the lower tiers.
Good balance takes ALL players into account. Not just the pros. What is best for them is not necessarily best for the game as a whole.
The liquipedia is a historical piece of wc3 
and in the next LoL patch:
Soraka start the game with 1 leg and 10hp. For each cure she loses 11 hp, but gains 5% of speed towards the next useless spot in the map. She has 3 skills for dealing 2 hp of damage over 63 seconds with 3 minutes cast. oh, don’t forget she a “healer”, but you can buy anyway her new skin at full price right after the monthly sale closes.
The history of Soraka from the clone of Celeste of Silvermoon to whatever is today…
if it’s so historical and important why have I never heard of it in almost two decades of sucking at this game?
“liquipedia” doesn’t even sound like something that has anything to do with Warcraft III.
I assume you’re just making a joke and you do actually understand what I’m trying to say right?
There have been many cases over the years of champions being OP in pro play but sucking in low-to-mid level play, and also vice versa. Often such a champion has a high skill cieling and risk/reward ratio. In such a situation the typical response is to find ways to make the champion work better in the hands of the average player without limiting what the pro player can achieve with it.
Youi never heard of team liquid? oO
Ye, I was just pointing out that over the years they completely destroyed one of the iconic charcaters
Mostly for the sake of flattening the game play in favour of “all characers must be the same”.
Anyway, today games are balanced to sell skins and charaters. There is no real balance anymore unless the game is completely free to play.
Yes, I’ve heard of them, but I haven’t gone looking for a website called “liquipedia” on the knowledge of their existence. I do NOT follow the pro scene.
It’s opinion and all, but I don’t really agree, In the early days there was a trend of new champions being obviously OP so that people would buy them and their skins (and then they get nerfed later), but that really hasn’t been the case so much lately. I remember quite a few champion releases where the champion was absolute garbage when it came out and took multiple patches to buff. If their sole motivation was to sell skins, I think they would have done a lot more to avoid that kind of a situation.
But utlimately, the point is that they don’t solely look at pro players to make balance decisions. Neither should Blizzard do so here. Why should I care if a pro player who plays human doesn’t win as much prize money if the game is balanced well for you and me?
I’m not saying the pro game doesn’t matter. But you can’t make good balance decisions without considering the whole picture and going from there.
What I see is the winning rate of Human against orc is 45.3%, ud 46.1%, random 45.1% for Grandmaster level. The only race has no advantage against any races among all the races! This shows how unbalanced the game currently is.
It shows how unbalanced it is… for pro play. Grandmaster is the only level which has a significant disparity.
Again: I’m not saying there isn’t an issue, but you can’t just say “BUFF HUMAN PROS SAID SO.” Balance is not a simple process. (and frankly, i’d rather say NERF EVERYTHING ELSE )
And given this thread: I don’t think footies are a source of this problem. The problem seems to be more that the OP doesn’t know how to use them.