PTR Version 1.36.1 Notes -- Updated November 9

PTR Discussion and Bug Report
428

After watching a B2W stream about PTR changes I decided that one post from me about that is not enough from me. If Neo wants to hear “our suggestions, our constructive ideas” about how we, players, see balance changes for NE, ok. He’s my thoughts, how I see NE in the next patch.
Just in case, a little disclaimer: That opinion is my personal, and other NEs like AccCreate or others can see it whatever how they want, don’t care much, tbh. :slightly_smiling_face:

In the realities of the W3C/competitive scene, sometimes we see a picture, in NE vs UD matchup, UD in ~9 min can come rushing with ghouls, while NE barely has anything to stop it on that time. So my guess is, needs to give NE an opportunity to stop it.
My 1st suggestion for that is to change the Moonstone amount of stacks available to buy. If we do closer look at shops from other races, Human have opportunity to heal yourself from scroll which gives HoT all units in decent range (it’s over 600 I guess), Orcs have opportunity to buy Healing Salve twice and each have 3 charges to heal their grunts/heroes, Undead have opportunity to do heal via sacrificial dagger, one dagger from shop, which gives 2 charges of it. And we return to NE and see that we can heal only through moon wells, we DON’T have any healing at T1 from shop, and now you want to even reduce that by lowering mana regen. Ok, let’s pretend for a sec that it is needed, but maybe as compensation for that nerf, we’ll receive additional Moonstone from the shop to recover less mana, but longer? Nobody would suffer from a longer night, I think. Otherwise, don’t touch mana regen, otherwise NE will barely have any resources to heal somehow.
My 2nd suggestion sounds like, change Druids of the Claw a bit differently. If we see NE units, specifically talons, on 1st upgrade to them, they receive crow from, and then Cyclone on 2nd upgrade. How about doing the same for bears? I mean, a slightly lower HP while at bear form and give opportunity to make bear form on 1st upgrade? And giving Rejouv a 2nd upgrade (at T3). This can give opportunity to fight back timing pushes, like was mentioned earlier from UD.
And the 3rd and last suggestion for this matchup is to bring back Chimeras somehow, due to not building them on most of the games (or any of games) due to costs and requirements. Maybe it’s rough, but give NE the opportunity to build Chim roosts at T2, and train Chimeras, but Corrosive Breath keep at T3 as a requirement. How about to lower requirements, like I told before and as example, had the opportunity to stop mass ghouls through Chimeras? Not sure if that’s gonna be broken and imbalanced, because Chimeras can’t attack air, and gargs can make a counter play, as result, easily kill those due to high mobility and attack to light armor.

Now, about changes on PTR.

I’m not sure if that’s fine to make both nerfs for NE, I mean nerf mana regen and Immolation from DH. Neo on his stream said the right thing, that needs to pick one from these two, but not both. Otherwise we might face a situation that NE would better stick with tavern heroes first, instead of their own. Due to Firelord changes with Larvas, it might become a better choice to start, which is not normal, imo.

Plus, if we’re not gonna change how I’ve suggested, then we need to do something with Ghouls and especially with T3 upgrade Ghoul Frenzy, this gives them A LOT. With DK aura and for example Frost Armor from Lich, it becomes barely a killable machine on a timing push. And if we keep those ghouls, we need some countermeasures. Ideas are being said above.
And of course, conclusion of all this is this from B2W stream about balance changes: “If moon well changes ruin NE, blame Grubby.” Here’s a clip of that: clips.twitch.tv/PlacidBoxyGoosePlanking-QQbXOJkHjjov8EVn
If someone have any other ideas where I’m right or wrong, go ahead and tell me how you see this, instead of stupid balance by changing only values, without change any mechanics. And crying about “not enough nerfs for NE and needs to do more”, and when I ask question about “how it should be”, people don’t know how exactly did that, mentions only stupid things, like change staff from shop in T2 to be even LONGER cd than it is, which is stupid.

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429

nerfing moonwells will kill the race speceficly vs rushes and orc in general ( elf dont go bears vs orc) elf will have less healing and we’ll see more rifle 1 base pushes and ud t3 pushes to end the game as fast as possible. also a nerf to mws is basically nerf ing all ne hero s cuz they all rely on mws except for potm but potm only played in ne mirror.

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430

+2 agility on the blademaster? That’s ridiculous- the blademaster already overpowered at high levels. I think they should undo the mirror image damage buff as high level players abuse it regularly.

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431

I appreciate the effort from Blizzard for trying to balance this old game, but nerfing moon wells will severely weaken Night Elf during the early game in all matchups, but especially vs UD who can Nerubian tower push extremely fast. Even if a night elf survives the initial push, he will have a hard time coming back with moon wells regenerating less moon juice. We already see UD expanding right after failed pushes and succeeding. This will further exacerbate that issue.

It will also weaken their ability to harass UD expansions as this is dependent on moon wells to heal the heroes up so they can resume creeping. UD can creep with skeletons/heal with death coil and has improved regen with aura, orc has salves and SH (particularly good with level 2 or 3 chain healing), HU creeps with elementals and has regen scrolls. Later on, UD gets statues and HU gets priests. Our only other healing besides moon wells comes from bears. This is why bears are so often used, it is our only other source of healing because we already cannot depend on moon wells all game as it currently is.

The DH and Warden are especially dependent on moon wells during the early game, and the DH is already getting nerfed. The improvement to Fan of Knives, while appreciated, does not make up for the glaring weakness in the early game caused by reduced moon well regeneration. The Warden will likely not be able to survive long enough to reap the benefits of the buff. In short, please reconsider the moon well nerf until we see the results of the other changes. Thank you.

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433

Wow, this argument puts most of mine to shame lol, what have I been missing?

I mean, isn’t that the idea? from the very beginning to the end, the generous mana recovery makes it really difficult to push in and close out an NE kill. Especially in rushes. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve won an early fight vs NE and forced them to base only to not be able to finish the job because they heal back massively every time. They get way too much recovery and when you consider they still have towers, it’s honestly more oppressive than the other race’s defensive options in many cases.

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434

This is facts

436

Geez, it’s a 10% nerf to moonwell efficiency, and it’s still better than 1.28, when it was less.
Human masonry has been literally halved (both HP and armor wise) since the TFT release, and you still see humans mass towers.
I highly doubt a 10% nerf to moonwells will bury the night elf race beneath the Earth. You still got your instant healing and mana recovery from literally your farms.
The amount of reactions just shows how addicted night elves are to abusing that.

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437

I’m asking 2 questions:

  1. do you know what Lyn’s win rate is against the top 5 elves?53%.Do you know what Happy has against all of them?75%.For this reason, according to logic Happy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>stronger than Lyn right? Now imagine that emperor will play 100 games only on the orc vs all these elves, what his win rate will be?
  2. what about 120? Is he also head and shoulders stronger than Lyn? How to explain that 120 has 61% (and this is only because of the anomaly with Moon, if you remove him,his win rate = 65%)

state of race balance at the top level in general are now: UD>NE=~ORC>HU.
by match ups it`s:
UD>>>NE,UD>ORC,UD>>>HU
ORC=NE,ORC>>HU
NE>>HU
So both orcs and elves has 1 good favored matchup,while ud have 1 little favored and two crazy favored,so there is only one imba race by far-fkn UDs.
Destros, statues, banshees, slow from three sources, web and burrow of fiends - all this shiit needs to be nerfed twice, and they sit and reduce the attack speed of the nerubian by 30%,thinking that everything is ok now, that the top elves and hums will start winning against the top UDs more often than in one game out of 3-4.

438

Wrong.

Also wrong.

Destroyers - nerfed already

Statues - FIVE TIMES nerfed for 20 years in a row

Banshees - nerfed AMS and affected by Statue nerf

Slow:
Frost Wyrm nerfed.
Frost Armor nerfed.
Nerubian Tower nerfed.

The nerfs to Undead are all there. The race is suffering only because of Happy, who is the best player in the world. If Happy wasn’t playing, then the next best player would be 120, who is inconsistent. Apart from that, there are zero UD who can play at the absolute top level.

Undead is suffering against Human lategame because unless you have insane micro, you don’t easily beat Knights + Gyros + Triple Staff + Orb of Fire + constant powercreep on HU heroes.

Undead cannot even use Frost Wyrms because they get countered so easily by all races.

Its about time Undead gets new options and new toys and actual buffs to their units. Mana on everything has been nerfed thanks to statues. So now its about time their bad units like Abominations, Wyrms and Necromancers get buffed. Along with Crypt Lord passive, which should have happened years ago. And along with Dreadlord, which is now happening and might help.

439 
The Elf heroes, few units and buildings need buff and rework.
  1. Demon Hunter: return +1 agility.
    Evasion: miss chance increase from 10/20/30 to 15/25/30.
  2. Keeper of the Grove: Keeper of the Grove base Intelligence return from 18 to 19 and Entangling Roots cast range on 700 with lvl 2. Increased treants damage base from 14 to 16. Thorns aura also work equally against melee units as well as long-range units.
  3. Priestess of the Moon: Buff agility from 19 to 20. Owls scouts rework and buff and base attack cooldown reduced from 2.33 to 2.00.
  4. Warden: Buff agility and intelligence from 20 to 21 and 16 to 17 accordingly. Fan of knifes damage per target from 75/125/190 to 85/135/200.

Buff hp for wisps and back for them mana lose to units heroes from 40 to 45 and hp from 120 to 130. Was buff hp for peons, acolytes and peasants so please buff hp for wisps too.

                             So now about units.

Dryads: Bring back Abolish Magic damage against summoned units 300 and buff mana regen. Reduce the experience gain Dryads from Level 3 (60xp) to Level 2 (40 xp

Mountain Giant: Make it so that produce MG’s without shop. Also give for Mountain Giants Resistant Skin or Hardened Skin default and Mountain Giant supply reduced from 7 back to 6. Recuced for mgs from 14 to 7 second cooldown taunts. Harderen skin buff from 8 to 10 armor.

Chimaera: also movement speed return from 250 to 270.

Now about the buildings: Tree of lifes buff Nature’s Blessing Armor Bonus on +2.
Nature blessing upgrade cost reduce from 150 gold 200 wood to 100 gold and 150 wood.
Moon well: moon wells no need nerf because NE will be weakest race ever stop lession to moba player and other whiners.

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441

You are wrong, Amnesiac.
BM shall be buffed and will be anyway in the newest patch (bladestorm) to make it playable versus Hum.
What is in fact ridiculous is the latest post from another elf fanatic “prizrak” dreaming about unrealistic buffs for NE.

Cheers.

-NWS

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442

It’s great to see that Warcraft III is still keeping up with updates and adjustments, however could you kindly fix these bugs in addition to adjusting the balance:

When opened “OPTIONS”, once switched to “GAMEPLAY” tab, even I didn’t change anything, it still pops the “SETTINGS MODIFIED” window before I exit “OPTIONS”.

Default game speed cannot be changed: even I changed the value of “gamespeed” in War3Preferences.txt to “1”, it still fixed at “FAST”. I knew it can decrease by press minus key in game and understand that some people like/need a fast pace, but could you do players who tend to play with other speeds a consideration so they don’t have to change the speed every game?

In some cases pressing key(s) can cause the World Editor to get semi-freeze so I have to close it, if there are unsaved element(s) at the time the freeze is triggered then I have to use task manager to terminate the process (as normal closing will make “Warning: Save changes to ‘XX.w3m/w3x’?” pop out and it can not function properly due to freeze). Unfortunately I can’t find a pattern that triggers the freeze at the moment, from what I remember it seems to usually appear in XX editors (Object Editor and etc).

“TEAM TOGETHER” sometimes doesn’t work well especially when player slots/start locations are not full filled.

Item “Spell Book”'s “Dispel Magic” need “Priest Adept Training” to release, therefore if obtainer’s force cannot research this then they cannot use it.
Since this item does not appear in standard melee/match maps (for now) so I certainly understand if you put this at a very low priority. However considering it is still a design flaw and not hard to correct, so when it’s convenient would you…

The following are not bugs, but rather non-balance related some requests:

Could you cosider moving the indication of FPS & APM & PING to UI instead of the game screen – as the UI has some surplus spaces?
Speaking of UI, if it convenient could you remove the part of the UI that expands out on the left and right sides of it in Classic mode?

Thanks for your precious time to update and read this post.

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443

Ok, let’s double all cooldowns now.

444

Dude i give you the facts (numbers) and you give me your opinion. I didn’t see the answers to my two questions. Why the f. does consistency of 120 matter if the only correct approach is to look at the overall win rate of a player against a player by maps? And his win rate speaks for itself. By your logic 120 is almost 1.5 times stronger than Lyn, despite the fact that any adequate person will tell you that Lyn>120 or at least on equal terms with him.What, do you think Focus plays stronger than Sok and Romantic? He has 61%wr against both at a good distance.Lyn has 73% vs both.For thinking people everything is obvious.
These nerfs you are talking about are nothing. Here are the fair nerfs that i wrote about (note that i suggested to nerf moonwells more than two weeks ago, even though i am NE fan) PTR Version 1.36.1 Notes -- Updated November 9 - #184 by Aventurier-245543666
If there are rich people here, offer the challenge to Happy to play against the top 5 elves 100 games purely on orc. I guarantee you that he won’t even show 50%wr, despite the fact that he has 75% playing ud.
To those who say that this is not his race, i will answer - not so superior he is then in skill even to the top 10 players, not to mention top 2. This is not a proposal for a challenge to juggle 10 objects , this is a proposal to play the race against which he has been playing for 20 years and which he knows inside out and on which he himself has played hundreds, if not thousands of games.

445

most of balance advisors team are nelf players. Ne players know that, that’s why they get impudent

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446

What you call “facts (numbers)” is not just a wrong interpretation, its an interpretation that musn’t be made in the first place.

This comparison is nonsense. If you want to compare a player’s strength, then you look at how they do against each other in matches. At the moment, Happy is winning more often against Lyn than Lyn wins against Happy. That is a fact. Some series are incredibly close (we saw 4-3 for Happy in the Norwegian Whale tournament recently). And mind you this is in the current patch where Undead has received gigantic nerfs to everything across the whole race due to the 33% mana nerf on statues. Now that can give us an indication that yes, it is very likely that right now Happy is better than Lyn.

Are you comparing winrates against Night Elf again? If so, then its another flawed comparison.

Now this is complete nonsense. In your first paragraph you were talking about how one player supposedly better than the other.

What you do here is to look at player strength and then you say “X race is better than race Y.” Again, this is complete nonsense.

And to be honest, this is extremely unfair to the players involved. You seem to put no value on their efforts or their training and improvement.

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447

Hi Blizzard,
Please fix the bug that the ‘Spoken Language’ Setting does not work unless it is the same as ‘Text Language’. For many players, it is preferable that the spoken language is in English but the text language is the native language. This is the way classic warcraft is before and including 1.31. This bug has been there since 1.35. Please take the opportunity to fix the bug.

448

It seems like it is fixed here on the PTR.

Edit: I just tried it, I selected German for text and English for voice, which worked as it should. I also reversed these settings, selecting German for voice and English for text, and this also worked as it should.

Be sure to actually try the PTR and read the patch notes before asking for something that’s already been done.

449

Thanks Jack

450

or please at least some one explain to me why only this orb can get stacks while other orbs can not

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