But it’s not your IP, it’s Blizzard’s.
No it’s fans that made reforged happen, Blizzard just saw an opportunity to make more money. It’s we who are playing it for years and willing to pay for more content (as long as it respects communities wishes) and should be targeted audience not some random wow players who doesn’t care for wc3 and want some fanfic lvl stories.
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Fans aren’t the corporate overlords, president of Blizzard, dev team, and investors. Like I get what you’re saying otherwise.
Whether we’re corporate overlords or not. No money = no game.
You need to be able to sell what you make to keep your company running, so if we didn’t generate demand by wanting it, they’d never make it. Pretty simple.
But the story isnt actually changing.
Depends on your definition of “changing.”
It’s going to be the same character names, in the same place names.
But, the places are going to look different, the characters lines and voice actors are going to be changed. There are both confirmed. So it’s a fair statement by someone to be concerned that this will not be the same game as the original.
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And from the very beginning we knew this. That is indeed what is changing.
But the story itself hasn’t changed.
See, the thing is… we knew there was going to be change from the start. So if someone doesn’t want any change at all, then they should know Reforged isn’t for them, from the very beginning. This isn’t something that will change because we give stringent feedback. I don’t think it’s constructive to bring up how customer money drives demand either since obviously we who want the story and lore 100% unchanged are in the minority of the minority of customers who will be buying reforged. Blizzard doesn’t want people clinging to the old story and wants WoW to be the definitive image of characters and locations.
This isn’t a remaster, we were told this from the beginning. Trying to make it a remaster is kind of moot at this point.
The demand for a graphically updated Warcraft 3 isn’t even really coming from us. It’s coming from the tens/hundreds of thousands of Chinese custom map players. There are reasons why the characters look like they’re from a generic asian MMO.
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You literally contradicted yourself in the first two lines. Ofc the story changes when you change things. That’s what changes do. They change things.
The point isn’t that people want no changes whatsoever, they want the changes to be improvements and thats where the debate comes from. Some people think the characters are fine, and it’s the graphics and story inconsistencies that need to be replaced. Other people want Warcraft 4 as told by WoW. And then there’s everything in between.
They’re changing the story and the graphics, and probably not even reading the vast majority of these threads anyways. So ultimately our arguments are just between ourselves, and mostly for “I told you so,” value later when they screw something up.
So tell me what part of the story changes. Which parts are you in disagreement with.
I am aware of the changes but nothing screams out that the actual story is changing. Everything else, like Kael having green eyes or Akama looking like a Broken, are definitely changes, but not things that actually affect the story. Neither does changing Dalaran’s layout or having a few new bosses in Stratholme. From what I have observed, the story isn’t any different. The Culling trailer was generally the same as the original, beat-for-beat. I use ‘generally’ only because we all know this isn’t a 1:1 remake.
You are saying they are changing the story, but that is vague and ambiguous. You say you want improvements, but that is also a vague and ambiguous statement. To someone, these story changes are improvements. This needs to be elaborated because changes and improvements are not an objective statements that we all understand the context in. As I understand it, Reforged is improving Warcraft 3’s cutscenes, graphics and even the gameplay by adding more sub-bosses. I personally do not agree with every improvement, but that’s what they are because the original WC3 was so basic in its cutscenes and gameplay.
I’m trying to understand what part of the story you think is actually changing, because I don’t see it changed at all.
In your opinion, what parts of the story are changing that are so unacceptable? I am looking for specifics, otherwise I will simply be agreeing with your statements and concluding with ‘Yeah, and Reforged is already making improvements’ and this becomes an ever-fuzzy debate.
What I’m trying to get is how your statement about retaining the high demand and giving players what they want has relevance to what they’re already doing here with the story. We’re all assuming Blizzard making changes to character appearance and locations directly conflicts with the demand for an unchanged story. From what I see, the story doesn’t actually change. That tells me the demand is then actually ‘no change to characters or locations’, and to me that’s somewhat of a separate issue to tackle as far as what is being changed and why people should be angry.
An example would be MCU’s decision to have a non-white Mary Jane pissing some people off, and crying about how it’s changed the story. Well, the story didn’t change. The characters did, definitely, but the story is the same Spiderman story we’ve known since forever. It’s different yes, but still Spiderman. And while this isn’t 100% comparable since Homecoming wasn’t a remake of the original with character changes, the point is neither is Reforged a remake. We all knew that from the beginning.
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Nobody really complains about changes that expand on warcraft 3 story, gameplay changes that could pontentially improve the overall game are welcomed by most of us, but the story… As you said is completely subjective… Some love it some don’t… Thing is what some of us particularly want is, if there’s any change done… It does not reflect on changes and retcons done in WoW, which is my main complain as they said the would stich some inconsistencies with wow, and let’s be clear wow is full of inconsistencies, if they do this what ultimately will happen is that we end up with more inconsistencies than we began with… In order to really appreciate something under warcraft name is too completely separe each release… Did u know dalaran was already floating on the air by the time of the second war… This is lore stablished in wows movie… And don’t come with wow movie wasn’t made by blizzard…
All novels aren’t done by blizzard either only published by them.
Trust me when I tell you most of this new writers hired by blizzard are only interested in their paycheck and don’t know warcraft story as good as a real fan of the franchise… Even Christie Goldie that by this time knows a lot of the lore and forged her own… Has taken big pieces of s on some characters
I understand the sentiment, but I don’t understand why it’s so unacceptable when the graphics are changing regardless of WoW.
Inconsistencies appear all around. Dreadlords missing tail. Jaina wearing plate. Arthas’ head tinier than his palms. Yet if Kael gets green eyes or Akama is purple skinned with tentacle bits on his face, this suddenly becomes unacceptable because it’s a direct tie in with WoW? To me this just seems very narrow and contrived.
I’m not downplaying how people feel about these inconsistencies since there is definitely an aspect of nostalgia involved, and I totally understand that especially from hearing the new voices in the trailer. From the very start we know this is Reforged. We know it’s different. It just makes little logical sense to me when people say they are okay with inconsistencies as long as it has nothing to do with WoW.
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Fans are the people who pay these people you speak of…
Considering the damage World Of Warcraft did to the lore… any changes to Warcraft 3’s lore can only be bad. Warcraft 3 was the last good Blizzard game… every single Blizzard game after Warcraft 3 is hot garbage. World Of Warcraft’s MMO structure ruined the story as the story had to be changed to adapt to that structure which screwed over many plot lines in the progress. Like the Forsaken joining the Horde… it screwed over Varimathras’ plans.
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But that isnt anything but bias. You arent actually angry at the WoW changes in Reforged, you are angry at WoW handling its own story.
Are you actually upset that reforged will have new Stratholme layout and extra bosses or that Kael has green eyes and Akama will have a different look? Are those unacceptavle changes that affect your enjoyment of the story? I want know that what you actually are angry about is actually about Reforged and not just Reforged being associated to your hatred of WoW.
Kinda like blaming Diablo Immortal for not being Diablo 4 - thats not a legitimate reason for hating on it.
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I’m not stupid… I know Blizzard well enough to know that they will screw this up if they’re going to change the lore. They’re gonna give Sylvanas even more plot armor, putting more focus on her when she dies and all that BS… trying to make us care about her… when the thing is Sylvanas in Warcraft 3 was supposed to be a pest, we weren’t supposed to care about her, we were supposed to take pleasure in murdering her for constantly getting in our way during the Quel’Thalas missions of Path Of The Damned.
How anyone can like Sylvanas after playing those missions is beyond me… she is a completely unlikable character…
In fact she’s so bad that Saurfang is abandoning the horde because of her because she is killing innocent elves for no freaking reason, it’s completely out of character and just makes me hate her more.
I cannot stress how much I despise Sylvanas, the only reason why she hasn’t been killed off yet (again) is because she is literally walking fanservice and since the horde leaders need some big breasted chick who looks somewhat attractive (even though she’s undead which is weird), Blizzard refuse to kill her off and made her warchief to make her fans happy.
She was unlikable for the entirety of Warcraft 3… so unbelievably edgy and pretentious to the point that I celebrated the moment Arthas killed her, she got what she deserved for constantly taunting Arthas the whole way… yet Blizzard wants us to sympathize with her? Hell no, she murdered so many innocent people that she is pure evil.
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I’m very open minded about that kind of things…
-Tyrande hair being green instead of blue? Acceptable. Characters unchangeable physical traits should be kept for consistency.
-Akama’s “broken” model from wow? Acceptable. Is pretty cool and resembles that of warcraft.
-kaels green eyes? Unacceptable, this goes against both wow and warcraft 3 lore. Even most recently his orbs were changed to red during the scourge attack on silvermoon, he didn’t know fel magic by the time his campaign starts.
Understood, I agree with Kaels eyes too. I’m hoping they actually show a change and not just start him off with Green eyes, and tbh I think it would be a simple thing to do especially if they are taking care to represent the story through new cutscenes.
However what does 'unacceptable mean here. Is it ‘I will not buy this game because it is unacceptable’, because that is the context of which I’m arguing against in this topic.
To me, it’s all ‘acceptable’ in that I am knowingly going to play something that has new stuff, some which I may find not agreeable. That’s because I’m not hung up on details so much that it will prevent me from purchase - there are far more reasons to not buy a game than the eye color of a character. I want to know if people really feel so strongly that they will forfeit support of Reforged due to these kind of changes.
@Mephistroth
Well keeping it the same isn’t gonna make you hate Sylvanas any less. I don’t see your point.
Don’t mix warcraft 3 lore with wow lore, please.
During Arthas attack. You are the bad guy. The pest… She’s the hero who trying to save her people…
Don’t miss direct wows reconning her personality into warcraft 3,sylvanas during warcraft 3 post mortem… Only cared about freeing her people from the lich king… She never cared about killing innocents or controlling the world… This is clear because after liberating Lordaeron she remained there minding her own business… Her new personality is nothing but developers needing a new expansion for wow.
I agree with this as long as the new additions don’t go against the stablished lore… I actually did say in a post of my own it would be cool in kaels case… That we would be shown an actual cutscene showing us the real moment when high elves became blood elves… Because althou important, not because your people gets murdered and you want to change your name, does it mean you get to be a different race, your essense is the same, just like the orcs the moment they got in contact with the fel, was the key moment that changed then… Could be great to see an Ingame cinematic showing us this… Or cutscene…
And after we would get the green eyes… That would be cool…
This only in campaign mode thou… In skirmish we should still be getting high elves… Bloodelves were never part of the alliance… At least not enough to make an army according to lore
Yes you were the bad guy… but from the player’s perspective, she was a pest. Unlike Uther who showed clear frustration towards Arthas for turning away from the light, Sylvanas instead chose to flaunt her ego in front of Arthas… a very bad idea when he has a massive army of ghouls behind him.
Had Sylvanas not vexed Arthas, she would have died peacefully. The only reason why she was raised as a banshee was because she taunted Arthas the whole way through.
I do see where you’re comming from though. Sylvanas wasn’t inherently evil in ROC, she just had an annoying atitude. In WOW she is completely irredeemable. Call it subjective if you like but I never liked Sylvanas’ character even in Warcraft 3.
World Of Warcraft is what made me hate her the most though. The thing is that Varimathras was a good counterbalance to Sylvanas’ character, he made the forsaken missions more tolerable… but then WOW killed him off… why!? He was such a great character with so much promise and they just kill him off in the most anti-climactic way possible!?
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But if they kept everything the same, you still hate Sylvanas so nothing changes. So why resist against something that doesn’t even affect how you feel about the character?
And then you mention Varimathras… he’s not even being changed in Reforged. So what this tells me is you’re projecting WoW’s flaws onto Reforged’s changes; unfairly mind you.
If you actually have something to say against Reforged’s changes, then it should be about Reforged’s changes. Whatever you feel about certain characters and their portrayals in WoW isn’t actually being presented in Reforged’s changes.
Cuz for the most part, the changes that have been discussed aren’t on the level of killing Varimathras. There are things we do know about that we can clearly assume will be changed, such as Kael’s eyes and Akama’s looks. Sylvanas getting more lines to make her more sympathetic isn’t a change considering TFT does the exact same thing, regardless of how you feel about the character. Her campaign was already written as a revenge-driven sob story.