They like to rely on third parties until something like Dota 2 happens again. It seems like they didn’t learn the lesson. Anyway yes, the game should be finished and rely on its own ladder.
They can’t, that’s the problem. If your custom games still works is because it doesn’t rely on critical changes or the changes affect it in a really marginal way that you cannot even notice. No idea why they didn’t add it a s a feature. It is sad.
A trio + solo vs 2 pairs is hard too. At most they should keep the same split teams on each side. Believe me, I like to wait too for better games, but that are hosts, for example, that start games without even checking who joined a custom game. People have no patience.
Well, on the other side if the queue takes 30 minutes and there is no real channel chat feature it is better to move to another game.
The huge difference between the big chat covering half of the screen with few buttons to and codes to do everything and the possibility to whisper and squelch everyone VS an overlapping undocumented chat with no idea how to move from a channel to another, with different player names and the lack of keeping track of the players after game. Ok you know the name but you cannot directly talk with them anymore and that was the primary source of friends to add to the list in WC3.
You’re literally repeating the same argument i already closed off a long time ago, More like no ones using official because its an unmoderated chaos land plagued with team killers, extremely careless players, poor connection, no features, and its more unfair because you can be stumbling on arranged team game of people stomping you for a field day.
Both Grubby and Wtii already switched to W3C, i know 2 of my small twitch streaming buddies did too. and its universally more beneficial to let that platform grow, all you intend to do is arbitrarily yank it in the niche category, a platform by the way which is still very young despite of its quality.
If W3C shut down tomorrow and Blizzard did everything they did, which they wont, all those “masters” are going to come back and merge with everyone else and continue their “reign of terror”.
You have literally nothing to cling on to for this argument other then “if Blizzard did it perfectly, things would be fine” which they wont, nor is there a chance that they do a better job then W3C. you should find a better argument then sounding like a broken record.
I already clarified in full length how objectively speaking its better for the community to put effort into support W3C to become as healthy and habitable as possible because the community ultimately has the best quality control over this aspect. if Blizzard really wants to help us, they should fix stuff we have no control over. and the reason such deals have to be struck is because again, the game is passed its peak support time, the original classic team is no more which carried the real experienced folks. and there is hardly any evidence that any new team will get enough money or support, or have the same experience or forethought to do a better job, or get continued support to maintain the system throughout the years.
So they should focus on fixing things that don’t require constant maintenance.
you want to keep holding on to the same broken idea with very questionable rational, go ahead then, i can do this all day.
And just to clear something up, me, you, BrotherRoga and WinterDryad all most likely universally agree that Blizzard should be giving this game a better treatment, fixing and finishing many things. but the believeability of whether or not they would do it is exactly where we disagree, and “Blizzard” has fallen from grace for me long enough for me to prefer superboosting and supporting something we are able to fix in their absence rather then waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting and waiting… right until we get their sloppy attempt at a fix that isn’t even as feature full and good as something we already have.
The more you travel back in time the more i agree that they should do all the things W3C did, since the release of the game, but the more forward you go in time the harder and harder i’m going to bunker down on W3C being a community provided alternative that Blizzard should keep their dirty hands off of.
There is quite a bit longer list of people that still roam this forum and try to ask when the game will be in a proper state.
I guess it is not long enough for them to care^^
In the meanwhile sometimes it’s funny to just write stupid things…
I mean, you can say what you want but this is simply not true. I can find games on battle.net with ease. Any time of day. W3C is a minority of the total playerbase and by a wide margin.
I don’t disagree that there are obvious issues with it, but that’s all beside the point. Only the experts use W3C. And that actually makes the experience for me better personally, because I don’t run into those godlike players on battle.net lol
There are not enough people on W3C for everyone to get good matches. And that is unlikely to change because too many people simply aren’t willing to use mods. It doesn’t matter how good W3C is.
Your final statement just doesn’t make any sense. Blizzard isn’t going to touch W3C, and there’s little they can do about it existing even if they wanted to. And you can double down, triple down, quadruple down if you want, but non-hardcore players want a game that just works without needing to scour the internet for add-ons.
Me wanting blizzard to finish the darn game was true on day one, it was true on day 100, and it will remain true until such time that it actually happens. The hardcores can keep their W3C. I have no problem with it being there. But it will never replace battle.net entirely because there are too many people that don’t know about or aren’t willing to use a mod to get a ranking on a ladder.
This doesn’t nullify what you’re doing though, which is arbitrarily downplaying the W3Champions to make it seem like this out of reach cave in the mountains that nobody should or would pay attention to.
W3C is also one of the only mods that runs seamlessly on the game, as opposed to a traditional mod that you had to uninstall before you go the game back as it was, so the fact that it doesn’t interrupt this process is an additional bonus as to why it is very successful.
W3C is also not lacking in player numbers, by sheer fact of player ignorance Battle.net MIGHT hold the higher playercount title, but its custom games lobby list is easily matched by 1.26 patch players on Game Ranger, just open and compare lobbies for a few days and you’ll see player numbers are very close. so it only remains to argue if melee players higher in number in comparison or not, which i think with the switch of people i mentioned which are influencers and also large melee focused community hubs that are designed around taking care of melee players especially newbie ones, also actively supporting W3C, they are on a path to flatten out the player number comparison.
Chinese players play on their Netease platform so they don’t really conflate with the rest of us, which makes parsing out data easier. otherwise the custom platform of Netease would most likey completely overrun W3C and official Bnet combined.
Its not besides the point though, the points contribute to Battle.net not being used that much and having a poor experience, you’re just spreading misinformation at this point by suggesting only 360YNoScope people play on W3C which means you are somehow spiteful/biased against this platforms that you proceed to portray it that way, without actually giving it any chance to grow, the pro players back in the day used to be on W3Arena, but W3C has managed to be far more open and inclusive, and popular and provide really good quality across the board.
My respect for you dropped massively however for this statement And that actually makes the experience for me better personally, because I don’t run into those godlike players on battle.net lol which means you rather Wall-off people who are better then you on a different platform, consistently insist for the situation of official bnet to remain in the same relationship even if it were to improve ~ just because of your immediate comfort. which means, even if all of bnets problems were solved, you would prefer for the “masters” to not remigret back to proper Blizzard servers, which would infact end YOU up in the same place you were trying to run away from… just so you would have an “easier” experience because “the masters” are all on their own platform neatly walled off and you feel safe from them.
That is by far the most un-organized, poorly thought out and spiteful/vegeful counter-argument i have heard on this subject.
Warcraft 3 Reforged is not a popular product, its melee playerbase is also not popular outside of China because it is a difficult game to play, truly, there aren’t enough players on official battle net to properly balance things out, and remember if “masters” migrate over, which they have the full right to, you will find yourself in the same situation that you fled from W3C, except there Blizzard isn’t going to be even remotely as reachable, communicative, and responsible as W3C would be, which is why i have been consistently suggesting for people who have issues regarding this to help W3C to resolve the rest of these issues so at the end the entire future of melee will be player-made and player-driven focused, unshackled by the bureaucracy at Blizzard.
Infact, one of the main reasons Blizzard decided to allow for arranged teams to play with random teams was in a bad attempt at trying to provide quantity to the matches without maintain quality. which is an obvious tale of how they prefer to ditch quality for fake quantity and shallow get~away methods as solutions for problems.
I know Blizzard isn’t going to touch W3C, i’m confused as to why do you think, that i thought of such a thing, this just means you didn’t really understand what i meant with my previous post which was to lay down an example to prove a point, i laid the point with an example in this post without referring to a possible scenario of W3C shutting down, which won’t happen.
“Non-Hardcore players want what i say they want so i can think i won an argument”
How about we look at it in practice, Any player that even remotely comes close to the War3 community was very easily, with hardly any trouble forwarded to the W3C network by joint community effort on all sides, one of the very few areas where such a universally agreed upon effort was put forth. so no, the argument at trying to gaslight “oh my god all the effort, i can’t rub 0.5 brain cells together because i’m not a hardcore person” is false on 2 fronts, 1, people aren’t dumb, 2 - the point i mentioned about how much of an effort the community put in to make sure this is easy and smooth and broadly spread.
I think your mindset is outdated, and also kind of lazy if you ask me, you think there is 0 reason to put effort to make sure community provided alternatives succeed, because you don’t like a certain set of hyper competent people. and rather have them walled off in their own church.
The reason i said i bunker down on this subject more as time passes on is because unlike Blizzard i realize there is a time to act on something, and if you lose the momentum then alternative solutions grow in effectiveness because while Blizzard is slacking off, the alternatives are using the momentum.
Go back to Reforged release date and i would 100% agree with you, go 2 years away and i strongly disagree with you. because at that point, i laid out the risks and rewards and established a new mindset, considered all the risks and all the rewards and the possibility of the level of actual care we will have to “bargin” from Blizzard.
I respect it for trying to offer improvements to the game and community, but unless it finds some way to distance itself from being a place for the elite, it will never be much more than it is now.
Part of the problem is the name. The name itself implies it’s a place for the elite: war3 champions. With a name like that, unless you are explicitly trying to be a pro player, it’s a put-off.
And I seriously counter your player numbers argument with the info available within w3C itself, it will show you how many people are around and also in each of the queues. and those numbers are pretty small. There certainly isnt enough representation of the full range of skill levels for lower-to-mid skilled players to find good matches.
My respect for you dropped massively however for this statement
It’s just a factual statement, if your respect dropped “massively”, then you didn’t have any to begin with.
The W3C community is prmiarily the most elite of all W3 players. It is in fact partly because of them not playing on battlenet that my Versus games aren’t the massive slaughter that I experience on W3C. I mean, it’s just a fact, why does this decrease your respect?
Your statement about quantity over quality is also dubious. Yes, queue time was a factor, but it’s not the only factor. Other online multiplayer games, such as League of Legends and other mobas and FPS games, they allow premades and solos to be in the same queue, and they don’t regularly have major quality issues (Partly because they try to keep the compositions of the teams the same, i.e. a pair and a trio vs a pair and a trio, rather than a pair and a trio vs a full premade or all solos). It really would only take minor tweaking to improve this. It’s not inherently bad as long as both sides get the same/similar team composition, i.e. you dont have full premades vs all solos.
I want to be clear, I respect W3C as a tool for the most serious players. under the current conditions, however, it does not currently provide less skilled players a better experience. I actually like it better for providing a competitive setting for certain custom games than for melee, admittedly because the playing field is more level for those ladders, not top-heavy like the melee modes.
Go back to Reforged release date and i would 100% agree with you, go 2 years away and i strongly disagree with you. because at that point, i laid out the risks and rewards and established a new mindset, considered all the risks and all the rewards and the possibility of the level of actual care we will have to “bargin” from Blizzard.
The amount of time that passes is irrelevant. The game should be fixed, whether it was the day after release or now. it shouldn’t fall on the community to fix a broken game, unless they’re going to actually hire those people to do it officially.
It isn’t, Warcraft 3 Champions provides 16 dedicated servers across the globe (As opposed to Blizzards 3) matchmaking system, ranked/ladder play, Clans, Player Profiles, Clan chatting, it is actively developed and moderated by Staff, its Discord server has 7,789 members, its average playerbase is 6000 it provides a Reign of Chaos matchmaking as a homage to those who want it, and provides a specific service for certain custom maps, as a direct result of these achievements, it opens itself to a global audience far and wide, newbie and veteran abroad.
Back2Warcraft (Helps to pay for their servers)
W3Gym
W3United
HiveWorkshops
Grubby
WtiiWarcraft
Have all directly influenced their casual audiences to take part in War3Champions, any result of a lacking player balance between noob and veteran is not the result of W3C’s service, but the nature of Warcraft III as an 18 year old playable game. it is a fair platform and well worth supporting. the
Also that complaint about the name is childish, as a noob at melee, that name does not really offend me or make me feel outcasted, and for you to express a feeling towards a name by gaslighting it with “this is all just facts and logic, accept me” is what’s really a put-off.
It averages 6000 players, 1.800 to 2000 4v4 players. its discord has 7787 members + surrounding Discord community and Youtube/Twitch content creator influencers redirecting their casual audience to the platform.
For Warcraft 3 these numbers, at this state of the game is as good as you’re going to get, but instead of trying to help or reach out to them which you are more likely to get a positive response out of, you’re writing it off and discarding it.
Outside of the absolutely massive number of players in the Chinese platform Netease which would overwhelm any official battle.net and w3c numbers combined, the playerbase of the game is not really as large as you think, infact there is recent reports that a large amount of Chinese players are spamming smurf accounts and trading them, this practice while hammered down in W3C, is left unchecked for War3, Blizzard can’t even mop up Bot players for their actively developed and highly supported World of Warcraft TBC or Classic, and you rationally expect them to provide quality ? you are delusional.
No not really, prior to that i respected you as well as any fellow player, not anymore.
lets take a look at what you said again…
And that actually makes the experience for me better personally, because I don’t run into those godlike players on battle.net lol
You point out how the experience for you is better, but only for you, but even with your recent reply as evidence, you seem to actually want, even if everything was fixed, for all the “elite” players to be neatly walled off in War3Champions service because of your comfort. that ~ is how i lose respect for you massively. not to mention your arrogant “its all just facts and logic” statement. well its also a “factual” statement that
Versus is a horrible experience for me because of small number of dedicated servers and poor quality control and basically 90% of the features and functions missing, so its great that i use W3C so i don’t run into those monkey players in Versus lol… for me personally
… hmm? see what i did there ? how about a taste of your own medicine do i get to say that my opinion on the matter is just a fact of life and that you shouldn’t feel bad about it? not really, but that’s what you did, and furthermore, you don’t want fairness, you don’t want equal playing grounds for everyone, you’re just acting like a karen that is screaming for preferential treatment because better players then you happen to exist. and you can’t back out from any of this, all of your replies and the sheer ignorance, (like, literally ignoring or not realizing what you’re actually saying and implying) suggests that even in a situation where Blizzard fixes all the issues, you would still “prefer” if all the “elite” which you falsely claim, to remain on W3C, so that Versus is not “Plagued” by them, even though, objectively speaking, all of the players that are soo much better, in the event of a total fix and revitalization of official Versus, will jump back to create the same situation you were running from, in which case you will probably quit playing Warcraft 3, but perhaps still refuse to admit the categorical flaw in your argument out of sheer ego.
The statement about Blizzards rush to provide quantity over quality was an evident pointed out to highlight their pattern of behavior, you just failed to realize that. teaming up premades with premades and randoms with randoms is the standard way of doing things, and i didn’t speak out against it so i don’t know what am i suppose to do with your needless explanation.
You respecting W3C as a tool for the most serious players is the very problem, it is meant to be a platform for everyone, right now any person that helps in their effort to do so is helping them for a better outcome for everyone, the result of which is a platformed controlled and maintained by players for players and relieved of the utter bureaucracy at Blizzard where every minor change takes eons to go anywhere meaningful. the people who actually want to be genuinely serious for the matches they play, use that platform because of the provided features, as soon as Blizzard fixes it, everyone will flock back to using official, and the same exact situation will be recreated, but this time around no one is going to do anything against smurf accounts, no one is going to quality control and moderate the platform, no one is going to listen to player feedback, there will be no Reign of Chaos matchmaking for the people who liked it, Blizzard didn’t even fully finish Starcraft 1’s Ladder system since release in agust 2017.
What kind of arbitrary morality are you putting on the table for actually suggesting anyone who wants to take Warcraft 3 Melee seriously should go somewhere else to an unofficial platform so my feelings wont be hurt.
Literally, Jesus Christ.
As stated before this situation depends, and varies, demanding fixes that we have control and authority over is a waste of time, like with my request to provide an SD only downloadable feature, if someone could modify the game to operate without HD assets i wouldn’t be requesting such a feature.
If someone could modify the game to fix internal bugs and gltiches and many many issues, i wouldn’t really be asking for Blizzard to fix them, not because i somehow want to spare them, but because i’m tired of waiting and giving the fate of a game i love into the hands of a company that all of the people associated with creating the game i love are gone, the underbelly of the company has been exposed to truly daunting acts. to think in the middle of all of this you are the unflinching hero who refuses to bargin for anything and demand fixes is playing further into your delusion with reality. but the truth is, you don’t, you don’t want to demand for a proper fix to every single piece of the game that was missing or ever broken, you most likely will dismiss things that seem irrelevant to you, when they are just as much important.
All i ever did was present a rational argument based on fixing things we have no control over compared to things we have alot of control over to change over the years. i repeat it again for 5 times in a row:
Fixing things we have no control over is better then things we have full control over.
Fixing things we have no control over is better then things we have full control over.
Fixing things we have no control over is better then things we have full control over.
Fixing things we have no control over is better then things we have full control over.
Fixing things we have no control over is better then things we have full control over.
Except I don’t talk like that or use inflammatory terms to describe people. You seem to make a big point about me not explicitly stating “for me personally” implying that I’m trying to represent others. I’m not, so I apologize for any misunderstanding.
Versus works. Is it great? No. Can they fix the biggest issues if they try to? Yes. The ultimate point though is that the W3C community consists mainly of the best players out there. It’s not a great place for lower skilled players or beginners. And I really don’t see that changing anytime soon.
You respecting W3C as a tool for the most serious players is the very problem, it is meant to be a platform for everyone…
If it’s meant to be a platform for everyone, it needs to try harder to convey this. It’s the perception I have both by appearances and my personal experiences with games played on and off of it.
As it stands right now, it’s an elite community (Note: elite, not elitist- For the most part I think the people I’ve seen in the community have the proper attitude and are not elitist- i’ve gotten offers for help/training and such, so im not faulting the people themselves in any way). You can not deny this, it is just true. There is a massive skill level difference between any and all players on bnet vs any and all players on W3C. It just does not allow for good quality games because there aren’t enough lower skilled players using it.
First things first, they need to change the name. The name itself implies it’s for pros. Second things second, they need better outreach. By working with some custom map developers, they’ve done some work in this area but more is needed.
But the insurmountable third barrier is players who expect the games they buy to just work without mods. These players will move on rather than search for custom stuff to make their game work.
My respect for you dropped massively however for this statement And that actually makes the experience for me better personally, because I don’t run into those godlike players on battle.net lol which means you rather Wall-off people who are better then you on a different platform
No. You clearly misunderstand. I don’t want to wall off anyone from anything. What I’m describing is simply a symptom of the situation. I don’t want a divided community. Unfortunately, W3C divides the community. It’s a simple, undeniable fact. They’re not going to be able to get everyone to use it, and ultimately, the reality is, the people who do use it tend to be certain kinds of people, and the people who don’t, likewise tend to be certain kinds of people.
I’m not pleased or proud of that (even with the “lol” thrown in there), it’s just a reality that I’ve acccepted.
That’s not exactly the main point i was trying to convey, i actually held back from stating that you generalized people, atleast in the later replies you didn’t do that, but i was frustrated at your cheap usage of “this is just facts”, in this context it felt like me trying to explain to you why is there a day and night cycle and we don’t see the sun 24 hours a day, and your answer was something similar to “well, its just a fact that i saw the sun in the morning today, and someone should update the sun so i see it all the time”
logically not the best analogy, but hopefully it gets the point across. especially the part about explaining day and night cycle, its similar to your refusal or denial ? that times change, and its not rational to request the same thing from someone (Blizzard) after so much events have happened passed a certain point that suggest that our efforts to reach them will be null and void.
The “trying hard” part is largely up to people, you, me, any casual to stop being so scared of playing, remember War3 melee being hard by nature means some form of this issue will be recreated no matter whether its an official or unofficial playground.
Before a more vibrant base of players came in because of the newer patch updates, prior to Reforged (1.32) release, the custom community was mostly comprised of people who were either really crap at a map because they couldn’t be bothered, or people who were really, really good at the custom map, the influx of players that your arguments suggests to be required for this situation is far higher, we would need something like an instant boost of 40-000 players to even begin to see any proper difference, always remember something, if you aren’t wiling to form your small group of at the very least 5-6 people so that you guys give or less know eachothers strength and weakness and can cover eachothers back in team games like melee 2v2/3v3/4v4 or customs, if you are not atleast “trying” to accomplish that and just expecting Warcraft III to magically have influx of so many players that it will naturally fit everyone in, you’re pretty much shooting yourself in the foot.
I’ll repeat again, the name change is perhaps debateable, i mean you can go to their discord and voice your opinion on the matter, but i think its largely a childish thought process, and even though i’m probably a tier 1-2 bronze player, meaning very low skilled, i see nothing bad with that name, the only bad thing i honestly see is falsely being confused with a legendary old website called War3Campaigns, that was taken down, but only if its used consistently by its W3C achronim, otherwise “Champions” is rather inspiring to me.
Its not really insurmountable barrier, because:
1 - War3Champions ~ unlike other traditional mods that after installing take over a primary aspect of the game until you uninstall it, W3C runs alongside the rest of the game smoothly.
2 - The very first thing i replied to your previous post highlights all of the effort and assets that goes into helping and guiding people across the community, you need to understand this, in the war3 community we didn’t have a platform like W3C that so many aspects and niches of the community and many many discord servers would universally agree on its overall benefit and to help people get there easier, on alot of different subject the community has many of their own opinions and they don’t really agree on things, so this unification behind W3C is tremendous.
3 - People, especially folks who want to come back to playing a 18 year old game really aren’t that dumb okay ? what are we a Fortnite community ?
Does a barrier exist for newbies to get into W3C and help it grow ? yes.
Should Blizzard have done all of it at day 1 ? yes
Is that barrier so overwhelmingly difficult ? not really no, not after the level of effort people put into making it a seamless as they are able. so calling it an insurmountable barrier is disingenuous , its more like a “meh” barrier.
Here’s one suggestion i bet you didn’t think of, that W3C should try more to appeal to people with non English languages. now that’s a task worth working for.
Though their Discord server has general channels for 6 languages. platform wide it can be done better. perhaps something genuinely innovative that Blizzard will never do, like a chat system that auto translates one language to another so everyone can type in their own language and communicate with eachother.
Do i misunderstand ? i’m glad you clarified the situation for me, but you can’t blame me for getting on the fence with your responses implying you enjoy getting rid of good players in a walled off service for your own good.
And this is more of your cheap usage of “this is all just facts and logics, and is undeniable”.
It probably isn’t about getting everyone to use it, freedom of choice exists for a reason, but the majority is an achievable goal, mainly because of the functions, features and the competence at display with their product.
War3C for over a year and a half now has been doing its absolute best to provide a quality experience that is the soul reason that many people have even stuck with the game as long as they have. as much as you seem to be a “champion” for newbie people, if all of the veterans leave the game and find a new home, had W3C never existed, the entire melee community would collapse on its head, there would be no room for a grass root restart, as if the players who were loyal to the game for that long deserved such a fate in the first place, the entire structure behind befriending people, sometimes some far better then you and the comradery of the community culture would be destroyed.
W3C Objectively provides a better service to players then official does, and the nature of the playerbase is something that needs to be fixed by players themselves, like Gandalf says, through small acts of kindness, courage and love. W3C, Blizzard, Activision, idk, whoever else combined can’t fix the nature of the playerbase, but the players themselves, even though arguably W3C is largely run by players for other players.
And all you have to say to these collection of people in the end is that, its all just facts and logic that they divide the community, it should all be a one system rule oligarchy from Blizzard and its bureaucratic @#$! show. everyone should have went to official bnet and “enjoy” its gutter trash quality for 2 years and then some, truly, because even attempting to provide a better service for people is just dividing the community.
One last point i need to highlight is your insistence that W3C is a service for the best players, why your statement is hardly believable for me is partly because of the obvious effort that goes into easing in new players into the game. but also, look at someone like WtiiWarcraft, this man has been playing 4v4 RT for 15 years, has a combined Twitch and Youtube channel and the reason i’m mentioning the media part is to point out that this is all hard evidence documented for someone like you to check it out.
For 15 years this man has been playing 4v4, and he stuck with official Versus mode for a looong time before he was convinced to jump to W3C, not because of player pressure but because he was actively punished as a good player by bad teammates, and the fact that even the enemy team wasn’t really “good”, like, game scenarios happened where the enemy team suicided heros into Wtii and the team he played with, and the enemy team won because Wtii’s team was just that much worse, or perhaps had a failure to communicate.
In W3C, Wtii is experiencing THE SAME problem as a Diamond level player, literally the same problem, believe it or not Alhan, the “only” reality i will dare to pressure on you is that there isn’t very many good players even left on War3 as a whole that’s why earlier on i was more insistant on you improving yourself as a player and later now suggesting you to do the bare bones minimum of finding a small group of friends to play matches with so you won’t suffer.
Am i going to take your word seriously, or someone i see every day struggling, like if Wtii literally just stopped talking during his entire stream its still so glaringly obvious that the majority of the people semi continuously role play in a 4v4 RTS game instead of being reasonably aware of their surroundings and doing the most basic of communications.
When you take a moment to look War3’s situation from a distance its very obvious just how much … raw, radiated raw chaotic damage Reforged caused, so at the end of the day i fall back to my original statement when it comes to us players who are basically like hideout bandits in caves who have to trade with Blizzard, and basically do the management work they should be doing in the first place, and one of the that is deciding whether or not to put manypower and resources into fixing something the players have full control over and can heal themselves over something they have 0 control and authority over and its just left to rot with no player~made fixes possible, again with the rightful consideration that the game will never get back to a peak development and feedback communication stage it was before the Classic Team got fired, the individuals there and their skill and forethought was finely tuned for Warcraft III specifically, outsourced/outside company or another team is going to have to hammer its head in the wall for a good 2 years before they even begin to understand how to properly do updates for it. and this time the community is heavily bleeding and wounded because of Reforged.
The thing is, you can’t change this. Only W3C can. people are averse to using these things. It’s up to the people behind W3C to convince others that it isn’t what they probably think it is.
It may shock you to discover this, but we’re not just talking about people “coming bacK to an 18 year old game.” When reforged launched, there were new players. It was part of the point of doing a remake- not just to bring back people from the past, but to get new people from the present. While a disporportionately larger number of those people probably refunded, they do exist.
And this is more of your cheap usage of “this is all just facts and logics, and is undeniable”.
Calling it “cheap” doesn’t make it less true.
I mean, that’s your opinion, and I don’t entirely disagree, but just because some people think something is better, that’s not enough to get a lot of random people to use it. It’s just not that easy.
Only Blizzard is in a position to change the game for everyone, and all I can hope is that they eventually decide to do that, because however good anyone thinks W3C is , they can not get everyone to use it because they are not Blizzard.
There is a little problem with that:
No doubt on the fact that Blizzard should have made the official ladder, but I guess that (exactly as it happened with Dota) it is already too late.
It is not anymore about what is the “official” ladder, it is about what people recognises as the “official” ladder.
W3C offers everything you need for playing this game properly.
I can understand your complains, but, what they need to do is just to add a “training area”. If there are enough people asking for it they will surely add it.
What does Blizzard need to do to reach W3C?
You may say: build the whole ladder.
But, no^^
The correct answer is:
Build the whole ladder AND move an already established community to their ladder…
And, why should someone do that after he played 2 years sweating for reaching a score in a ladder where the real and good players are?
Because it’s “official”? Not enough of a reason to waste 2 years of playing…
Another solution could be:
Make the so called “official” ladder and start to cripple W3C coding wise.
That would just fuel an even more massive hate towards Blizzard.
It won’t take long before W3C becomes a profitable project.
A project that started foreseen the incapacity of a company to finish its own project (not hard to foresee looking at reforged).
In the end Blizzard lost another piece of its work. Genius managers will never stop to amaze us isn’t it?
Just ask W3C to create a well made training ground and stop hoping that some random development team will fix anything anytime soon…
Which is not an opinion held by everyone that use and enjoy the W3C service, that means you actually have to properly go there and present your arguments, in a less condescending way, but over time, as Staff start seeing your reasoning and you can easily PM/DM them about it.
Yeah i know, i’m just saying the War3’s audience aren’t dumb, the people who gave Reforged a shot and stayed are most likely players who stopped playing the game like 10 years ago, or influenced wow players or from Blizzards range of other audience, give or less they aren’t dumb so.
It doesn’t but you go back to my day and night cycle example.
They don’t have Blizzards reach for sure, but well, generally speaking at this time i’m more focused on trying to help the playerbase to have a mentality independent of Blizzards influence because of how likely it is for us to be abandoned by them for years to come.
You know the whole deal about EULA ? Blizzards reach and the words they put into that eula caused a mass panic and flocking of some of our best mapmakers to stop operating in Warcraft III it took us alot of effort to cancel Blizzards reach and to tell people that this Eula does not affect players at all unless they have like a 1 BILLION dollar idea from a custom map, and that mobile companies and other indie companies have actually low key stolen War3 custom map ideas and made their own rip~offs of them and they aren’t even accountable unlike Blizzard who will get into a big reputation blunder if they dared to do such a thing.
Also the statement that W3C is an objectively better service then Versus is not merely an opinion, your experience varies certainly. but all the literal~objective features it has is not opinionated:
The 16 dedicated servers as opposed to Blizzards 3 proxy servers.
It actually comes with an additional feature of allowing players on official servers to switch regions on fly by a dedicated menu area so it even improves the retail experience, because Blizzard did an action they shouldn't have: what ?
Custom game lobby was merged in pre 1.32 patches, and melee was not. this is reversed in Versus, they split up custom game players by region, then yanked all realms of melee in one dump which makes it so a poor sod from USA gets matched with someone in Asia and they both have 400ping.
Reconnection is a pause and recalibrate feature that W3C replicated from the old ENT and MMH bot days which Versus doesn’t have. it helps people to not disconnect on lengthy matches.
All the lost features of Clans, clanchat, ladder, player~profiles and ranked matchmaking system is replicated. they support Reign of Chaos players. we actually can far more easily view statistics since they are open about it, unlike secretive Blizzard.
They fixed classic hero glows through a local files implant, since Blizzard did a hacky job of transitioning those classic textures and alot of them suffered greatly, one among them being hero glows.
The service is actively moderated and developed, and has a financial backing from donations and alternative assets like Back2Warcraft.
Most importantly, they did it fast, and kept people engaged and kept them from quitting the game, where if it were in Blizzards hands even by only specific data we would have lost give or less 6000 players.
Its like, where is the opinion here ? i’m not trying to be crude but its a simply matter of:
A Doesnt’ have all of this (and in my opinion its not really even worth for them to do this)
B Has all of this.
You know about the whole story of Blizzard and being able to reach people ? here’s a fun idea, if Blizzard really, genuinely cared and saw the level of passion people had for Warcraft 3, they would official support War3Champions instead of seeking to replace them. there is nothing wrong with admitting mistakes or lack of manpower and resources they may have, i certainly don’t agree with you on them doing what W3C already does but if they truly had dignity they would just support W3C officially and transition that infrastructure instead of outcasting their own community for the 9 trillionth time.
Blizzards fake promise of providing art tools was actually met because a tool maker created a modern model making tool that could read both classic and HD models and is mainly responsible for creative output in places like Hiveworkshop, where is our recognition ? nowhere. W3C did all of this, Blizzard instead of actively supporting it is lying silent and dormant in the void.
I decided to include my response to this phase in Details, click on the arrow to expand, so its not too overwhelming to read everything else.
It’s never too late. Sure, people who are using W3C will continue to do so. but that doesn’t matter to people who aren’t. The community is already divided, there isn’t really any turning back. But that doesn’t mean that the people who aren’t using it don’t deserve a functional experience.
They’re not doing this for money, I’m sure some people will donate but “profitable?” I don’t think that’s their motivation.
I told you, it’s faster if you ask them to give you a better experience than ask to Blizzard… In a normal software development environment Reforged could be categorized as “discontinued” or “no longer supported” or anything like that.
Same was for Icefrog…
Everything is free until you become strong enough to develop your own project.
They could easily gain the experience and in 1-2 years propose an advanced service for this and other games too.
In 1-2 years maybe we’ll have a patch for more footprints and another “soon, just after SC3… just wait… ye ye”
about how much of an effort the community put in to make sure this is easy and smooth and broadly spread.
do i get to say that my opinion on the matter is just a fact of life and that you shouldn’t feel bad about it? not really, but that’s what you did, and furthermore, you don’t want fairness, you don’t want equal playing grounds for everyone, you’re just acting like a karen that is screaming for preferential treatment because better players then you happen to exist. and you can’t back out from any of this, all of your replies and the sheer ignorance, (like, literally ignoring or not realizing what you’re actually saying and implying) suggests that even in a situation where Blizzard fixes all the issues, you would still “prefer” if all the “elite” which you falsely claim, to remain on W3C, so that Versus is not “Plagued” by them, even though, objectively speaking, all of the players that are soo much better, in the event of a total fix and revitalization of official Versus, will jump back to create the same situation you were running from, in which case you will probably quit playing Warcraft 3, but perhaps still refuse to admit the categorical flaw in your argument out of sheer ego.
that’s why earlier on i was more insistant on you improving yourself as a player and later now suggesting you to do the bare bones minimum of finding a small group of friends to play matches with so you won’t suffer.