Hi guys
I have heard the arguments for and against removing the 12 unit selection limit, and I still think the benefits significantly outweigh the cons.
The main complaint I see is that it will dumb down micro, but at high levels of play people use control groups anyway. I really think that it will not have much effect at high levels of play, and I don’t think it will dumb the game down
But do you know who it will greatly help? New players. I know many, many new players will get frustrated by the 12 unit selection, and I think it’s a tiny sacrifice for veterans vs. a huuuge boost for the new community.
I think the veterans will learn to like it as well.
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I really think they should have both as a toggle in the settings.
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Yes, yes and yes.
The more threads, the better, grubby told us to give Blizz feedback on the forums. Here you got a massive one, remove that dumb limit.
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I bet that, even though everyone is complaining now, if you remove the limit and make it optional through the options, no one is going to put it on. Seriously. But if having the option gives a peace of mind to someone, fine.
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Right…
Even if it would be more convenient, though; I think there’s something to be said about the fact that the 12 unit limit has always been an interface challenge that the player has to overcome when commanding large armies.
It has a profound effect when you consider the relationship between the number of units you have fighting at a front and the number you have in production…
In addition to upkeep, the 12 unit selection limit seeks to promote smaller army sizes, and to use your units effectively rather than winning by pure mass.
Obviously there’s still a lot of situations during which you’re going to have to control more than 12 units, especially in late-game scenarios – but that’s one of the fundamental things that separates good players from bad ones.
How can you command your units despite that limit – That’s always been a huge part of the game.
Removing the limit would have wide reaching ramifications on gameplay. If we want warcraft without the 12 unit limit, I think we’re going to have to wait for Warcraft IV (which I really hope is around the corner somewhere.)
It’s not the type of thing you do during the process of remastery.
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by removing it the game will be more open for newer player and the nostalgia gamers that have played the rts game that come out after warcraft 3 gona lose nostalgia with the 12 unit limit!
it needs to be removed to get a bigger played base to stay!
and i can see it be more fun to play the game with the unit limit removed
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If somebody decides to go with F2-attack-move on you, so what? It just means he’s a bad player and you can beat him by microing.
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HELL NO. It would lower the skill ceiling way too much and it wouldn’t feel like WC3. This isn’t SC2 where you’re controlling 200 units. Git gud.
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How would it lower the skill ceiling? Are you telling me high level players are gonna box everything and attack move? Imo, it would help new players a lot, and hardly affect good players at all.
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Dude, it’s so much easier not having to worry about multiple control groups, which would make it more casual and not feel like WC3. It severely lowers the skill ceiling in that you don’t need to manage nearly as much. The game is about management. Learning how to manage macro groups is a huge part of the skill ceiling and also it helps to have it as 12 because it’s better for micro.
You contradict yourself.
How would it lower the skill ceiling?
“it would help new players a lot”
Effectively owned yourself.
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You have no idea what “Skill Ceiling” is, dont even try to talk in the stand of competitive players please.
“it would help new players a lot” -> this is called lowering the Skill floor for your own knowledge.
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I had an 80% winrate in solos and I played for the entire duration of the game’s life, even on and off as I got older. I’m still good, and macroing 12 unit groups is an integral part of the game’s feel.
LOL no, helping new players with casualized group limit increases literally raises the skill floor because now there’s less keypresses to worry about, and then pro players will just switch because hurr durr now the game’s objectively easier with larger unit groups. This isn’t SC2. We don’t need it in ladder.
Helping new players is raising the skill floor. WoW. One of the best things i ever read on blizzard forums…
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Raising the skill floor == lowering skill gap/ceiling == not as fun of a gameplay experience for all players. With the 12 unit group, new players will more than likely face newer players that also need to learn how to use control groups properly, and eventually they will feel a sense of accomplishment from having moved up the ranks as they get used to the game and more efficient at using control groups.
The problem isn’t control groups, it’s you.
I’ve literally never heard a complaint about 12 unit control groups my entire life, except in stuff like footies where it’s more beneficial to have and wouldn’t impact the game negatively.
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You have no clue what you’re talking about, please stop.
Also the rest of you post make no sense.
The beauty of War3 is not how you control your groups, it’s how you control every single unit. This is not Starcraft.
Yeah I do. Your retort is sad and lackluster in logical counters.
Here’s a diagram.
12 unit groups
Skill floor |----------|Skill ceiling
Unlimited groups
(less keypresses required, making game easier for casuals)
Skill floor —|-------|Skill ceiling
You effectively remove a small percentage of what it takes to be “better” than your opponent if you lessen the amount of required keypresses to macro.
“The beauty of War3 is not how you control your groups, it’s how you control every single unit. This is not Starcraft.”
It’s both, actually. The beauty of being able to play the keyboard like a madman versus someone who isn’t as good as you usually means you will win and deserve that win, because it’s skill based to require such an amount of macro. The micro part is even made easier because it would add new(bad) mechanics like stutter stepping.
“this is not starcraft”
Thanks for proving my point.
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Please do! It might not make much difference in Melee But PLEASE We need that in custom maps. It would help some of the custom maps greatly!
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Again, how is removing the limit lowering the skill ceiling? It only affects the skill ceiling when boxing all your units is more effective than having smaller control groups, which is certainly not the case.
Of course it’s easier not worrying about multiple control groups. But managing control groups is still better and nowhere near the toughest thing to manage, it’s basically trivial for top players, so how would this lower the skill ceiling? Lowering the skill ceiling would be to remove things like body blocking, item swapping mid-battle etc.
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So in YOUR OWN EXEMPLE raising the skill floor dont lower the skill ceiling (completely contradicting your previous post), are you trolling me or what ?
I’m not at all proving anything, basic english understanding seems required on your side.
So in YOUR OWN EXEMPLE raising the skill floor dont lower the skill ceiling (completely contradicting your previous post), are you trolling me or what ?
Clearly your reading comprehension is terrible.
Raising the skill floor == lowering skill gap/ceiling
When you lower/shrink the skill GAP, it also affects the skill CEILING, because now the floor is MUCH CLOSER TO THE CEILING.
You’re totally proving my point.
You want this game to control macro like SC2, but there’s no need because this isn’t a 200 unit game. You want it to be more casual so you don’t have to press ctrl groups because you cannot handle them.
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