“Giant stutter stepping deathball armies” is a losing strategy in War3, who cares if it allows it.
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You don’t know this. Do you have a crystal ball? It would definitely feel bad in WC3 and lower the skill ceiling a lot especially at higher levels where the intricacy of macro is a big part of how good someone is.
I do know this. Try going “Giant stutter stepping deathball armies” against any decent player in War 3 and see how you get destroyed. You should know this Mr “80% wins”.
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No, it would not lower the skill ceiling. It would make it easier for new players, but at high level play you still need to micro quite intensively.
Also, there are no “intricacies of macro” that relate to max 12 unit groups.
You just have reflexes and muscle memory formed around it, but the number 12 is not special in any way.
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No, it would not lower the skill ceiling.
Yes it would. It would lessen the amount of keypresses overall required to do the same thing someone using 12 group is trying to do.
“Also, there are no “intricacies of macro” that relate to max 12 unit groups.”
Wow you clearly have never played this game at a high level then. Ask grubby this question and I bet he laughs at you.
If you can’t form muscle memory around 12 unit groups then don’t play, because it’s clear you don’t enjoy warcraft 3 or the amount of skill it takes to be high level.
I mean, if they were 0 turn rate marines with stimpack I could see that happening, but I think we are talking about another game. lol
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He is not asking Grubby, he’s asking you and still you fail to provide an answer. Guess it’s time to stop writing nonsense ?
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I asked Grubby, he is leaning towards increasing the number to 14 or 16.
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I literally just explained to you how it would make the game worse.
Yes it would. It would lessen the amount of keypresses overall required to do the same thing someone using 12 group is trying to do.
How is this hard to comprehend? Or do you just ignore things you don’t want to believe?
No need to insult one another 
please flag this.
Also
Balancing the game around the highest level players is something you can do when you have an actual player base. WC 3 ladder desperately needs more players.
I like how “Skill” for you is literally having more APM, and that is about it.
Like saying, having a mouse with more than 2 buttons is “less skillful” because you have more options at your disposal.
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I’ve literally seen posts on facebook from girls about the game dude. If you don’t think WC3 isn’t about to have a crazy resurgence of players you have no idea about anything then.
I like how “Skill” for you is literally having more APM, and that is about it.
Wow who knew in an RTS game involving macro and micro that APM would have a huge factor in the amount of skill players had. Whew.
Hotkeys are a different story. I’m all for custom hotkeys as it’s more of a personal experience modifier than anything.
Yeah starcraft has bigger armies than wc3 but still has the 12 limit.
That will most likely leave after 2-3 weeks of playing, or just focus on custom games.
APM is not really that good of an indicator dude, pressing more button badly is still bad. What do you think is going to happen? The focus will just shift from control group micro to individual unit micro. The overall need for APM will not change.
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Oh boy so lets change an integral mechanic of the game for casuals that don’t even want to play the game long term! Sounds smart!
APM is definitely SOMEWHAT of an indicator of skill. Usually the higher (and more efficient APM users) are better players overall. Giving them the ability to control their entire army would lower the required APM to be better than other players at the macro game.
You really don’t get it, do you? It’s about making the base game easier for the casual player so the learning curve is not so steep.
Again, I fail to see how high level play will be affected by this… unless you are willing to say that high level players will get rekt by noobs because noobs can F2 + Attack.
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More units in a group == less required control groups == less required APM == less required mechanical skill
It would dumb down the game a bit for higher level players and also introduce bad mechanics like full army stutter stepping and others I can’t think of that would probably pop up out of nowhere and make certain strats extremely hard to beat.
Then just keep using 12 unit groups dude no one will stop you.
You can keep using 12 and others can use 5 or 20 or whatever.
By the same token, you can say that it will put more emphasis on micro-ing spell casters, small groups of ranged units and other thing that will INCREASE the skill ceiling in a more fun way.
No. Because then it affects my game at that point by allowing the opponent to more easily control their groups. Well, at that point people would only be using 4 hotkeys the entire game if you put higher limits. If you can’t handle more than 3-4 ctrl groups then guess what, the problem is you and not the game.
By the same token, you can say that it will put more emphasis on micro-ing spell casters, small groups of ranged units and other thing that will INCREASE the skill ceiling in a more fun way.
No it wont, because microing is done at a level that doesn’t require more than 12 selected units.
How about you take your own advice and “git gud”
If everyone has a easier time, then no one has an advantage.
You’ll have to find other avenues to be better not: oh look, I can juggle between 1 and 2 and 3 very fast.
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You contradict yourself. First you say “then use 12 unit control groups” but using 12 vs unlimited is artificially making the game harder for me because it would require me to have higher APM to do the same thing as my opponent.
If everyone has an easier time, then the game’s skill gap is smaller, and the game won’t have a long life, because “gitting gud” is a part of gaming. Gitting gud is what makes most competitive games fun. Making it easier will ruin an element of that.
It’s not about juggling between groups, it’s about being more efficient and knowledgeable and knowing how to control the army with multiple control groups. Complexity vs simplicity argument. Complexity is always better in regards to RTS games that require an ounce of skill.
I’ll fight you about this all day on 2 different posts, I don’t care. Stop trying to ruin my childhood.
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