I dont know what you want people to tell you here. They devs dont want to change the gameplay much if at all. You can call it purist or whatever you like but thats the direction they appear to be going. I already told you I have no personal preference if they get increased or not. I personally never found the 12 unit limit particularly cumbersome considering the relatively small size of wc3 armies compared to something like sc but I also have no real aversion to increased cap either.
But let me ask you something here. What do you think the unit cap should be if not 12? And what are the real major benefits to having a higher cap. People have said its “easier” for new players but I dont see how unless you are advocating for new players to group everything together and just A move around. I am not arguing I am asking because like I said I never found the unit cap to be a problem personally so I cant relate to this issue the rest of you are mentioning. To me grouping the units into multiple smaller units seems like the logical way to play. If this was sc with mucher bigger armies I could see your point but in wc3 where you normally have around 30 units or less then 12 cap control groups seems a reasonable size to manage.
just because devolpers dont want to change it so much it doesnt mean they wont if its what everyone think !
I think if unit cap if not 12 it would have much better experince for new players and will keep them in game much longer wich the game needs ALOT … dont you have more custom maps? more competitions? to get them you need more new players.
a player just started playing will not micro anything. after he learn game he will start practicing it but if you force it to his throat he will be bored after his second multiplayer game
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SaltySeagul, I agree with all your points. I believe that removing the unit cap will not make a difference to my gameplay personally as I have played games with and without unit caps.
I personally don’t believe they should change fundamental elements of the game, it worked well in 2003 because of the army size and people should just learn how to play the game " the way it was intended to be played".
Makaramus,
If your intent is to remove the cap to help new players, this should be a setting only in custom games and campaign to allow new players to learn the game. I 100% believe in this idea “remove unit cap in custom games and campaign”
But in regards to ranked game modes the competitive nature and game play should not be changed IMO
You dont actually state how its “better” for new players tho. WC3 is a very micro intensive game especially when you look at the multi-player aspect. Would it not be better for players to learn how to set up control groups properly and micro from the beginning then reward them early on with 1 control group A moving only to get destroyed when they get to other aspects of the game?
The game actively punishes you with upkeep for having large armies so I ask why is it so vital to have more than 12 unit control groups? Why is this supposedly easier and better?
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I did explain how its “better” althought… new players will not be good at managing micro play as old players. it would be better for them to master at micro sure and teach them how to group their units
BUT! it should be thing when they are more intrested in becoming better in game. if you push it to their throat it will only cause frustation!
let them learn using entire army at once is not efficent by themselves instead of forcing them to not do it.
let them have fun time
difficulty is good thing only when its not forced . it should be matter of decision not rule
as I explained “why” its good thing… I expecting you to do same and explain me “why” its bad thing to do… tell me harm it will bring!
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it can be also good thing for pro players too. they can press one button to regroup their army instead of pressing 1+2+3+4+5. just press 6 and right click.
this will also help you to regroup your army when not all of them are in groups yet.
does this change matter skill? hell no. pro player will still micro better and crush enemy. grouping your army faster means only you can put your attention to diffrent things
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This I disagree with because this is dumbing down the micro element at pro level. Clicking one button to disengage your entire army from a fight and the like is something I am not comfortable with personally. This would be like streamlining unit pathing so thats its easier to surround units, it has big implications. I dont think I would like this at all. If you must have unlimited control groups that control the whole army I would rather that be a campaign and custom thing only. I dont think I would like that in competitive games at all. Thats a pretty significant change to micro.
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I completely agree with Salty,
I believe this changes the competitive aspect to much.
It should be an available option in Custom games and Campaign!
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excuse me but if you select your entire army at once to retreat I can just aoe it easier so its still better to not doing that and making them retreat seperated.
wich mean you are wrong pro level is still not changing ![:slight_smile:](https://dou48tnq0ocoa.cloudfront.net/en/warcraft3/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
and even if it changed… is it too diffrent than 1+right click,2+right click,3+right click?
is it THAT diffrent? really?
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I’m not a native speaker so maybe I’m not being clear, but this is literally it lol. If removing the 12 unit cap won’t change the gameplay much if at all, why shouldn’t we change it? It is as much a QoL change as better hotkeys, and these will be completely new. So if someone can point out how it actually changes the gameplay in a big way we can settle this conversation.
Over nine thousand. Why bother with artificially imposed numbers if the game itself naturally converge to what it is now?
While they are learning the game? Why not?! Every single one of then who gets to enjoy it without these silly hiccups and want to improve at the game will get to learn how to micro properly through guides, streams and all the other 15 years of content, we don’t need to mock them while they are learning and we sure don’t have to make the game less palatable.
It is the logical way to play, it is the proper way to play, the game naturally converges to extreme micro, that’s the fun part. So why should we just keep these artificial barriers if it naturally emerges from all other mechanics? Back in the day the developers were afraid we wouldn’t play the micro game, but they’ve made everything so related to it that the cap is utterly unnecessary now that the game is “solved”. People won’t devolve into “F2 A-move” armies and new players will have be able to transition at their own pace to more skillful control. Hell, don’t you wish you could select your whole army when moving around instead of sending the 2-3 groups individually?
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There is opportunity there if you have to manage different groups for your opponent to isolate some units and surround them/body block. With your method if I am an orc I can pop move scroll and then click my whole army away and the chances to isolate are smaller because I dont have to issue different orders. I am sorry I just dont like this change in a ladder environment. This is messing with elements I dont think need to be messed with.
I dunno this just seems like a trap for new players in the name of “fun” but sure go for it in campaign and custom I guess. But I still dont like it for ladder because it alters the micro game a bit and I think that should be preserved as is. Its not going to destroy or hurt anything but I just dont like it, you can call that a purist argument if you like but I personally would rather keep the control groups the way they are in ladder.
1 Question -
If people who have played the game for 15+ years do not want fundamental game play mechanics changed… why is it fair to change them to make it easier for new players?
Regardless if it makes a difference to game play, why should anything be changed if it worked so well?
Why cant new players play “campaign and custom” to learn? Why should competitive ladder be changed ?
How about we change the game play mechanics of the games you play, so I can learn how to play them better…
are you telling me you are not doing this allready?
1+2+3+4 use scroll 1+2+3+4
I mean how much time you gonna gain by pressing only 5? 0.2 second? 
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this is not because you think this is better for game but instead you think this is best FOR YOU! YOU ONLY! no one else
does that sound fair to you?
hell I still sometimes play this game I am hard fan and I allways hated being unable to choose entire army
DO ANYONE LOVE IT? I MEAN REALLY! I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT “NOT CARING”.
I litearlly asking you did you ever say “man I really love being unable to choose more than 12 units at the same time” EVEN ONCE?
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Maka, chill out man.
Your calling me selfish because I don’t want it changed, how are you not selfish for wanting it changed to benefit you?
Hypocritical much?
In this game keeping every unit alive matters so even minor movement delays that cost units getting picked off are huge and at the pro level can win games. Now I am no pro player but still there are some significant micro changes that can happen if you have the ability to select the whole army and issue singular orders. As I said it would not destroy anything but its messing with things that dont need to be messed with.
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because it doenst benefit me? I sometimes dont even command more than 10 units sometimes?
How can I be selfish when I ask someting that has benefit for others and not me?
it doesnt benefit me so you are mistaken here
well… it may benefit me at custom maps thats another story.
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again give me answer: DO ANYONE LOVE THAT! anyone? Seriusly. do you enjoy being forced to choose max 12 units at once? ever!
also warcraft 3 much more slower game than games like starcraft. it will not matter so much if you commanded your army 0.2 second faster. even if it do it will barely matter
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