The people who want to shoot themselves in the foot, can do so, just let them enable it and make the default be able to select infinite units
If blizzard doesn’t remove the 12 unit selection limit, because that’s the number of Pete Stilwell’s IQ points, it won’t be that big of a deal because you don’t make nearly as many units as you do in SC
Not one has come up with a unit composition that breaks without the cap. No one has given any new argument for why the change shouldn’t happen.
The best ones so far are:
Selection screen paging, which self evidently is an UI problem that comes from having unlimited selection in cases were normal selection would already fail.
And inertia, to change is the proactive instance so it needs to be well based.
Give me the unit composition before dragging this conversation further.
To be fair, everyone saying “it wont change the game” has no idea as it hasn’t been tested, this is solely their opinion.
Not giving a reason why it shouldn’t change is better than everyone making up why “they think” it wont make a difference to the competitive game play. Additionally, assuming “pros wont notice a difference or wont care” is silly because 90% of people here are gold league players at best and are making assumptions of how this will change high level play.
Ehhr, that’s the thing, let me walk you through all that I’ve gather up so far:
Firstly, direct to the point, I don’t think it would be impossible to conjecture a composition that would be OP without the cap. You give me one that can be microed with 12 units selected at once and from there we can make some assumptions. Is it too strong? Is it too easy to control? Adding even more units should only amplify these characteristics.
No one gave me anything. There was one guy talking about how it would look like "blob armies" of SC2 and I tried this with 12 Wind Riders/Gargoyles. It doesn’t come close to SC2, the turn rates and attack animations are so far apart that I was almost laughing when my attempts to stutter step failed miserably (I can do that ok-ish in SC2 and MOBAs).
So if you hope to reliably control all your army with one single static control group, I think you will get rekt, and that already happens with the 12 cap. You must dictate what each small group or even what each single unit must do during an engagement at high level. There is no easy way out.
Furthermore, there was the claim that army compositions are dictated at least a bit by the 12 cap, but how come a pro player like Grubby say that increasing the cap to 14 or 16 would probably be fine? At least that he would have in mind.
Then there is the claim that the too many units selected at once would create paging at the Unit Selection UI. Which is true and I expect real though from the team to implement it properly if they decide to remove the cap, but then it hitted me: This would only happen if you are already selecting more than 12 units, this naturally happens right now when you try to box select and select more than the cap, but it’s worse, since you can’t even page, you must attempt to select your units again and aim for less of then (which can still be done with unlimited selection if your mouse is faster than your paging skills).
And there is the idea that it is an important tool to make new players learn the game, but that transition - from the noob who wants to blindly play in their own noob way, to the good player that tries to get better after each game and looks for online help and such - it is obvious that in 2018 it is an internal effort and we have all the material necessary to the players looking to improve (with more to come probably). We already play the game much further than the expectations of the original designers, we don’t need training wells anymore. We can leave noobs and beginners alike play at their own pace.
Finally, if I haven’t forgot anything, there is the very basic purist idea to follow: the game shouldn’t change. I think this idea, at least conceptually, is really important. I think no change should go without thought and the fear to break this game is commendable. But I can’t keep my own purist feelings in the face of a change that will help new players, transitioning players, and give us all comfort too. This to me is exactly like the Hotkeys issue I’ve seen in SC:R were people were advocating that the Probe Hotkey on P was part of the balance. Giving commands shouldn’t be hindered mechanically, this should be hindered by a players own skill, this is the essence of micro.
easy agree on you EnriqueWR you are probly one of the best here bring points out!
i understand nostalgia in many ways but the only games i can understand the point of not changing the core mechanic is games on consol or games that use controller and mmorpg games
but when i see the rts games i cant get that view becus i know already that a games u move armys feels much better when the unit limit is removed and this game is easy one of my favorite rts but i wuld love it alot more with unit limit gone like many others and is for the better to get new players to get into the game!
Then just play the freaking 2003 wc3 then, we have a chanse to get more stuff new stuff, to have a littlebit difrent playstyle, no need to be sceard of new changes, u allways have the orignal game to play if u dont like it
Please remove the cap it’s a terribly annoying limitation that will only frustrate new players and continue to frustrate so many old players if this thread is any representation. In competitive play you still will not have huge armys to bind to one key and A move into a base. The game will still be about microing smaller groups of units so there will still be reason to bind units on multiple keys. However it will get rid of so much frustration just by removing a clunky useless limitation.
Selection cap of 18 would be ideal. It can even be done in SD right now by just adding a third row of units to the group screen.
if they do a selection cap i rather have it be 30 becus then i am sure none wuld find a good reason to hate the unit cap other then custom games that is!
but i think unlimited is better maby let 1 of the footman say how many of that unit is in a number if it is more then 20
No, this is an update to the game but we are not getting new stuff except for new balance patches. The original game will be able to be played on the same servers as reforged so your point is invalid. 12 unit cap will likely stay.
That’s what it is, the same game with modern graphics. Classic and reforged servers will be linked. The games will stay the same.
Please leave the game as is. Increasing the cap will only encourage thoughtless play, and will not teach new players how to manage their army. (I’m not even that good, and yes, the temptation is there to just throw everything at the enemy, but that is not what gets the W in most cases.)
I might be willing to consider a VERY conservative bump to 14 or something, but even this will change the game fundamentally. Please give us our beloved WC3 the way it is! (Careful balances with more buffs than nerfs are fine of course.)
they been in Q&A already they are thinking abut seprated ladder without 12 unit limit and one with it they confirmed they are able to do this you probly find the link abit higher in comments
It wouldn’t be Warcraft 3. Don’t change a core part of game play.
The 12 limit is an archaic part of the past.
Since wc3 had small arimes, it wouldn’t even affect gameplay that much
Let us simply get this out of the way:
Unlimited for customs yes? Can we all agree?
Okay, what about the campaign? I think this would be agreed upon as well. Would really make it into a much more casual experience. Maybe they could have a difficulty that is the same as the hardest only with a selection cap.
Ladder is complicated. I want compromise. Either 18 unit selection or 2 ladders one with 12 and one with unlimited.
they already thinking abut separeted ladder for 12 unit limit and 1 without it check Q&A so pretty much nostalgia ladder and modern ladder but we are still waiting for more info abut what they decided
Players coming from campaign to ladder would be weirded out of their mind. I think campaign should hold it’s own, but it is an introduction to the rest of the game.
Campaign is beyond awful as an introduction…
the unit cap of 12 never made sense from the beginning of the game. i cant believe its been stuck at 12 for all these years. nothing is worse than having to hotkey 2 unit groups. nobody is “new” at this game at this point, so saying this change would only encourage thoughtless playstyles is absurd.