But most custom games are RPG without any regular units. How would the 12 unit cap affect those?
Custom games have lasted fine with the 12 unit cap. Most custom games are solo hero controlled anyhow.
Its not affected many games unless you are wanting to play macro style maps. SC2 has plenty of those if you want it. Better pathing too, which is perfect for macro.
Sadly, SC2 has nothing the likes of LTA or Azeroth Wars.
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Marvelous compilation, well done!
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Footman Frenzy. War in the Plaguelands, Evolves, Knights and Kings, Village Builder, any Zombie game, Dark Ages of Warcraft, Lordaeron Tactics, Dawn of Kingdoms… The list goes on and on. There are a lot of grand-strategy style games already out that could benefit from increased selection. Not to mention games that people haven’t even made / genres not even invented yet. You saying that is like someone arguing that Heroes are a waste for Wc3 and should be removed, because no TD uses them.
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I dont understand how saying Macro type custom maps are uncommon equates to saying heroes should be removed from War 3.
They are still uncommon in the grand scheme of things, and despite benefitting from anything, they play fine as they are. If you disagree just say so, no need for false equivalencies.
Custom maps would benefit from circular hitboxes and better pathing, but the game would be fine without it too.
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Changing the unit cap would create no balance issues at all. There’s no situations like Starcraft1 where you can have either 24 dragoons on 2 control group or 96 zerglings on 8 control groups, where unlimited selection would heavily favor the zerg. Most pro players would keep 3 control groups on average just because units have different roles and have to be controlled seperately.
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Killing potential map types is the same as killing potential map types. Can’t have RPG’s or Hero Arenas without heroes. Macro games suffer majorly from unit selection issues. Even if you make a spam of control groups (still limited to max of 120 units then), good luck getting your micro on, since all the slots you could be using for actual strategy is just being used to move your blob.
Also, how are macro-games uncommon? You are literally pulling things out of thin air. Do you even play Wc3 dude?
Custom maps literally don’t need that though lol. 12 unit selection is annoying, boxing units in is a strategy built into the core of the game itself.
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Killing?
Nothings changed if the 12 unit limit stays. So no, ‘they’ arent killing maps in that respect.
The argument you are making is that those macro maps, which you listed, are dying amd unplayable if kept exactly the same as right now. I disagree and I think you are exaggerating the situation completely.
Why bother telling me there are many types of macro maps then suggest that they are all unplayable and dying?
Well, I’m glad that’s settled…
Honestly though, if this is all true, then this is pretty much exactly how I would’ve wanted it. Compatible with the classic, changing the story where appropriate but not messing with it too much, and upgrading features. Also, on the diversity topic, only adding content where it makes sense and isn’t obnoxious is welcome.
“Killing the prospect for extended games down that route.”
You could make Hero-based maps without heroes per-say (using specialized units, they already exist). But you really think DotA and its ilk would have spawned if that were the case? With no good framework to base off of? No.
There’s no practical reason to keep the 12 unit selection for custom games. All it does is stifle possibilities for map makers. If you’re not active like me on forums like Hive, don’t try to tell me what is wanted by the makers, because you obviously don’t know. You say those types of games are dying, except I see Coming of the Horde, Lordaeron Tactics, and many others being hosted every day. A solid chunk of the regulars have stopped since the latest update though, since all the rankings, that were only possible because of bots, are all gone. But that’s a totally different issue.
So we’re clear, I’ll just say it one last time. Changing the 12 unit selection cap changes nothing for melee players, but opens a whole level of QoL improvements for custom games. There is no compatability issue for it between Classic and Reforged, since they’d have to change it inside the engine, which both of the games run off of, and melee games can simply have it disabled.
They’re making a moddable UI ffs, so why is a 12 unit selection cap for customs sacrosanct then? If they want developer flexibility/freedom, they should lift some of the most obvious hard-caps for them.
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Commentating to say that I really think Co-op would be a really good move for Reforged. I think for every person who will regularly queue up in 1v1, there are ten more that will just want to do the campaign and maybe 4v4s.
Lets be honest, many of us are now in our late 20s and 30s and don’t have the luxury of studying the meta for hours and slamming a redbull before queuing up. We already have enough stress in our lives, and we just want to relax which 1v1 queuing is anything but.
By introducing Co-op content you are encouraging people like me to put in more hours, and SC2 already gives you a roadmap for how to monetize it in a way that people actually like by introducing new heroes. And frankly, WC3 is MUCH better suited for a co-op style with a hero and limited number of units to use than SC2 is.
TLDR - if you don’t include Co-op content, im going to play the campaign and maybe a 4v4 once every six months and never pay another dime. If you put in Co-op content with a reasonable number of unique commanders, and then add more unique commanders I’ll probably buy every single one and drag my old friends back into the game too.
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Updated the post a bit (no new information, though). I went through all the videos quickly and put source notes where each things was mentioned, so now you if you need a source for a certain thing, you don’t have to remember which video it was and go through it all over and over again (except that one particular video, but fortunately most of them aren’t that long).
As for the people asking for a source on the update of February, it is on the 7th source note.
Here’s a direct link to the point:
Now, it doesn’t clearly state it would be on February, as I watched it, I noticed Pete actually says “in February or somewhere around the spring”, so we might not even get the new editor just quite yet… But I have my hopes high!
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sweet mother of posting mercy.
Just remembered how bad it feels when you are looking at the photo of Pete… Smiling… ‘Lol I’ll go on with ruining this game’
Fingered crossed for february
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Goodness I hope so! I want to get rid of that dated mechanic at least in custom
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I second all of that!
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This. I very very very much want to be able to remove the unit selection cap (and unit cap in general among other things) for custom. Let players choose what selection cap, if any, they will use for their custom maps.
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This might become possible with the upgrades we’re getting for the World Editor, especially if the UI will become modular and easily to manipulate as they have said.