1.36.2.21146 PTR 3 Patch Notes

PTR Discussion and Bug Report
84

Hi!

I play a lot with the PotM and it’s great to see some improvements to this underused hero! However there is still an issue with the scouting owl.

If you take this skill first and use it to scout, automatically your enemy will know your hero is weak in terms of damage output and he will attack. Late game I guess it’s nice to have, but if you get it at level 7 it’s kinda too late.

So why not buff the owl somehow? I mean, who ever saw the owl in any match whatsoever?

First, the owl could have a passive skill that makes it automatically home onto the closest enemy hero, unless told to do otherwise.

Second, the owl should actually do something, you know? aside from scouting I mean, to improve combat and perhaps help with early game skirmishes? What if the Potm could teleport to the spot where the owl is? That would be so useful without being too OP since the PotM by itself can’t do much harm until it gets SF. It could also help the PotM escape or catch up to a retreating hero.

Or maybe it could detonate like the wisps, only the detonation would stun enemies? That would be cool, say you’re following an army and you detonate the owl while it is creeping. It could also help during creeping and fights.

Anyways, I don’t see the point of having this skill that no one ever uses.

The owl must be improved!

1 Like
85

if this go live i can go touch grass must be nice to be a human or a orc player buffs each patch non stop

1 Like
86

Plz no take out 4vs4 tournaments… If you schedule them on fri/sat/sun NA primetime I think they will still be good.

87

The change of curse will make banshee too strong. Please give human at least one way to counter banshee.

Polymorph is not going to be used in any match up.By the time you get polymorph your opponent must have means to dispel. For banshee, antimagic needs three dispels and possession can’t be dispelled. If it was a balanced comparable game, possession should be dispellable and anti magic should be dispellable by a single dispel. Currently, banshee is much stronger unit than soccs even with the Polymorph buff.

One other way of modify Polymorph is to make it like the current possession. Give it a 4.5 seconds buffering time like possession and once done, the Polymorph is permanent and undispellable forever.

When can we nerf fairy dragon?

3 Likes
88

I will not be discussing possible changes that are distant from the changes of the provided Patch.
I am attempting presenting it easy to read and implement.
Summed-up beautiful colorful spreadsheet file is downloadable through my contact.
I consider history and public opinion on WarCraft III balance.
I favour Human Race and thus am biased towards.

Today, we’ve deployed our first 1.36.2 update build to the Warcraft III: Reforged PTR. This Patch will feature tournament changes, map pool updates, and balance adjustments.

Please note that this test version is a work in progress and is subject to change.

Indeed is this Patch in need of adjustments.

General.

We’ve updated our backend server infrastructure to improve server frame rate.

Good.
Some people claimed server frame rate significantly worsening.
I do not give it much thought, it “should” improve for this being first iteration of the Patch.

Balance.

Polymorph can now target Heroes (3-second duration)

Bad.
For its inaccessibility, Mana Cost, it will only be Cast on Heroes.
This is annoying for the Enemy.
Human needs not stronger Tier 3.
Plentiful things cancelling Channeling is bad.
Reason being Channeling beeing unreasonably strong in order of compensating.
Means not stopping the Chanelling of an Enemy is an end.
Reduce the Duration of general Channelling and increase the accessibility.
Of Non-Channelling Abilities reduce the strength, Duration and increase availability by reducing Mana Cost.
Revert this change, reduce the Mana Cost from 220 to 150, reduce the Duration on Units from 60 to 20 seconds.
The potency of recommended changes is adjustable.
.

Sundering Blades now requires an upgrade again

Tauren now are available at Tier 2 (pulverized still requires tier 3)

Opinionless.
.

Priestess of the Moon Searing Arrows mana cost reduced from 8 to 5
Priestess of the Moon Searing Arrows damage increased from 10/20/30 to 10/25/40

Good.
Inenough compared to Orb of Venom.
.

Mountain Giant food cost reduced from 7 to 6

Neutral.
Mountain Giants are inaccessible and unworth without Upgrades of Resistant Skin and Hardened Skin.
Make Mountain Giants more accessible by reducing the Gold Cost or Lumber Cost and further could be the reducing of the Training Time.
Is Gold Cost or/and Lumber Cost problematic I know not, as I know not is Training Time.
For Resistant Skin can not be weakened - encost it.
Is it Gold Cost or Lumber Cost that would be less problematic when increased I know not.
Weaken the Hardened Skin by reducing the Ignored Damage from 12 to 8.
.

Vorpal Blades research time reduced from 60 to 45 seconds

Opinionless.
.

Ghoul Frenzy attack speed bonus reduced from 35 to 30

Good.
.

Curse can now target mechanical units

Bad.
Unneeded.
Solely against Tanks.
Tanks are in the right spot.
Gyrocopters would not be affected for their numbers, for it will be unworth Cursing them instead of something else.
Banshee is already excelling.
.

Cripple can now target mechanical units

Bad.
Useless for Necromancers are useless.
Strengthening the Necromances will negatively affect Tanks.
As in Polymorph of Human, weaken the Duration and make it more accessible, further weaken the strength of the Buff itself.
Reduce Attack Speed and Damage Reduction from 50% to 30% and reduce Movement Speed Reduction from 75% to 30%, reduce the Duration from 60 to 20 seconds, reduce the Mana Cost from 175 to 50 and make it Auto-Castable.
The potency of recommended changes is adjustable.
.

Scroll of Healing removed from the Tomb of Relics

Good.
.

Wand of Negation added to the Tomb of Relics (Available at tier 2)

Good.
Too expensive.
Reduce the Gold Cost of Wand of Negation from 200 to 150 for Undead not to rely on Destroyers.
.

Meat Wagon speed increased from 220 to 240

Oppinionless.
.

Frost Wyrm Freezing Breath lumber cost reduced from 275 to 225

Good.
Impotent change.
.

Firelord Volcano building damage factor reduced from 3 to 2

Good.
Buff the Abilities of Firelord.
.

Naga Sea Witch Tornado speed base and Min Speed increase from 75 to 150

Good.
Vulcano and Tornado shall suffer the same faith of Channeling Spells I mentioned in the Human section.
For they are useless - a change to self-defensive Hero Abilities, as: Mana Shield, Divine Shield, Unholy Pact, Spiked Carapace is needed.
The changes I will not mention for it is overwhelming.

Tournaments.

We are updating the tournament schedule to have more 1v1 and 2v2 during the week and a 3v3 tournament on Sundays and removing 4v4 from the tournament pool

You are missing a full stop.
Oppinionless.
Not many care about this.

89

Well glad to see a new patch.
It seems that the general direction of this patch is better than the previous one. While the buff to Elf is somewhat wired since these buff does not change current meta at all. The design of elf race has multiple serious problem and nothing is touched at this PTR.

For instance,
Archers, as a range unit, has a tanky passive ability and ultra-low HP.
Due to this self-contradict setting, the HP of hippo rider is not in the right number it should be. Ac should back to ROC HP without grace so we could fix this problem.

HT, as a frontline unit, is unarmored with a great shield. In fact, this is the unit should be protecting by such passive ability like Elune Grace.
Yes, indeed everyone knows that massive HTs was a disaster and should never back. So why not nerf the damage and buff the armor number to balance it? We could even set HT as a single target melee unit and restore it attack attribute gradually after T2 and T3 upgrade. At same time let the HTs have ability to holding their line with higher HP, Armor or extra defend ability.

Glaive Thrower

What is the feature of this unit? T1 Unlock, wow so powerful. But what the price? Hmm again here is self-contradict setting. Let’s turn this unit back to T2 and buff it to in line with other siege units.

Vorpal Blades

Completely useless upgrade, a range buff would be ideal.

Tree of Life

Now we have 120s building time and 60s entangle time.
110s+70s seems a way better since the era of all map tree of life has passed.

Siege and piercing damage --150% to unarmored type unit since TFT, this should be reconsidered because casters from all race fell so fast under this setting. A sightly buff such as 125% damage is enough to clear out low hp unarmored units especially when every range unit had been buffed in recent years.

90

Yes, the nationality of professional players should not be taken into account in the game. I think this is an act of crossing boundaries. In the game, different players can use different languages for communication and exchange, just to enjoy the fun of the game. People use the game together, which should be friendly and united. There should not be any bad changes due to certain parameters of the game and the player’s nationality

91

I love that y’all are still working on the game, but I think someone needs to proofread these patch notes because like

what is “server frame rate"? that’s not a thing.

92

Once again all you is talk, not a single argument, cause you simply can’t argue with anything i said. If you was any good i would have known you, but how good you are, is not relevant to being bias or to know what game needs in terms of balance. Just like a good football players doesn’t mean he will be a good coach, and in most cases it’s not.

As far as UD coming on top, nice try. Orcs are going to be completely broken with T3 units on T2.
Again Ghouls are glass canon and you can’t argue with that, just like you can’t argue how broken the Troll Berserkers are. If anyone needs a big nerf, it’s them.

93

You already have ways to counter banshee - Mortar Teams. And you don’t even need to build a building for it, you always go for workshop.

94

Make motor mechanical and Immu to nova coil combo would make it work against banshee. Otherwise it is useless.

2 Likes
95

Regarding humans, I think poly on heroes is insane especially if every single poly can last 3 secs with consecutive casts on same heroe unit. I think humans are hard to play and that they struggle a lot to develop their early game with respect to other races, but this change is making them kings of all races if they are able to survive their early game.

For orcs, having Taurens at T2 is insane and makes it pointless and unfair for the other races since they can now produce any unit in T2. T3 is only worth for them for orb and third heroe only, which is a circumstance and advantage that no other race has. I can understand if you guys are trying to make more people play orcs, but this is not a balance for them, it’s a super buff. I think another alternative like adding 1 or more spells or even a new unit can help more to make them more attractive. I also think people might not play them as other races because orcs are basically the only race that has a very solid 1 path of army strategy, unlike other races. However that 1 solid army strat that orcs have is already way too strong. So I think other solutions to make that race attractive would be better.

For undeads, I think this is a race that has had problems with sustains/heals for a long time and, in particular, in the early game, which was sort of balanced with the latest shop item with which they can heal with at t1. I don’t know if removing healling scroll from their shop is an actual balance since even among pro players, undead is not quite the strongest race, and the only one that can actually beat all other players/races is a single person (i.e., Happy). Nonetheless, changing that item for wand of negation, specially at T2, is super useless because undead race works very well making destroyers, which have devour. I really think that changing healling scroll for wand of negation is basically a nerf due to that I don’t think that wand of negation will be useful or worth with respect to devour, specially if wand of negation is a consumable. Nerfing ghouls frenzy might be okey I guess if the healling scroll nerf (having changing that for wand of negation) didn’t came up, but I think that those two nerfs together will hit the undead race hard and will make them hard to play.

As for night elves, their changes seem okey I guess but at the same time laughable because while humans and orcs have been ridiculously buffed, and undeads have been noticeably nerfed, the changes to night elves seem like as if they have been forgotten as a race haha. Night elves are hard to play at top level according to what I have heard from pro players at their streams, and I have even heard grubby say that as well. So, overall it seems a bit unfair to night elves.

In conclusion, while I think that ghoul frenzy nerf is something that could be experimented with, the healling scroll nerf seems unfair and not balanced, and the poly and taurens change is overpowered and unfair too. Due to that, I personally dislike this patch tremendously. Therefore, I hope the dev team considers this and the other thoughts everyone is having on this patch to make this new patch a better experience for everyone.

1 Like
96

Taurens on t2? Then revert all thier buffs - cost lumber, mini-pulverize, build time. Tho even after revert anyway they’re too good. Why? They can just add taurens at t2 until upgrade t3, then army of taurens suddenly ready, this is scary. Maybe it’s ok, if move reinforced defense to t3, not sure is it enough.

Banshees and necromants vs mechanical units? You mean tanks? Bad idea.
Because tanks were seem counter strat against mass banshees, which are against mass knights, it’s all about scout or blind mindgames. Tanks will be useless garbage vs banshees with new changes.
Necromants almost always combine with necrowagons, anyway without changes this is too good strat vs tanks or you mean late necros vs mass tanks? Ud won’t make 1-2 necromants with master upgrade for def base, when they have banshees with less mana cost.

Polymorph vs heroes? It looks OP, but hard to tell, because of big mana cost (200).

5 Likes
97

I think the Polymorph change is interesting, but seems very strong.

Tauren - Naaay, not like this. Tier 3 for orc not unlocking any new units is bs imo. Buff Taurens then.

Why not give ghouls a little bit more hp to make them more durable?
Wand of Negation change is interesting.
Freezing Breath - isn’t everything cheap enough? Isn’t the game fast enough? I’m not a fan of making everything cheaper. Buff the upgrade itself, not make it cheaper.

Potm change is good, but doesn’t make it more interesting.

1 Like
98

Finally I see someone understands the game.

1 Like
99

It is beyond me, how brainrotten and sad most of these reactions are. No one would launch the PTR for a 10 hp buff. If the previous patches showed one thing, it is that they dare to start off with big changes on the PTR, but dont hesitate to scale them back, if there’s proper feedback.

P.S.: Would be nice if ladder match results would be tracked correctly and FFA ladder could be fixed. Frustrating for any new player

1 Like
100

Would be better decrease duration of some Adept/Master training mages updates.

Example -

  • Sorceress: master upgrade (polymorph) 75 → 60 or 65 sec
    but adept upgrade (invisible) still 60 sec

  • Priest: adept upgrade (dispel) 60 → 45 or 50 sec
    but master upgrade (inner fire) still 75 sec

  • Shaman: adept upgrade (lighting shield) 60 → 45 ot 50 sec
    but master upgrade (bloodlust) still 75 sec

  • Witchdoctor: adept upgrade (stun trap) 60 → 45 ot 50 sec
    but master upgrade (heal wards) still 75 sec

etc.

101

Thank you! The WC3 community seems to have become a caricature of itself. Yes, this whining can be seen as a viable reason NOT to touch the game with a 10-metre pole…

My suggestion has always been TRYING out ultimates at level 5. Most of them aren’t that strong anyway, only a few would have to be nerfed (such as Meta or Panda pals).

Polymorph - that’s something I thought of myself, but I’d not make it last longer than 1 sec on heroes (or even 0.5).

Tauren at T2 - I’d argue that it’s adding flavour, not removing it. Although a Resistant Skin upgrade would make sense, too.

Meat Wagon speed - exactly as people were requesting for the Necro strat!

Wand of Negation - now that’s an incredibly bold move. After all, Destros still remain supreme at T3. But Destro-less strats might become viable, that’s huge!

102

Orc

  • Tauren now are available at Tier 2

This change is ridiculous: Orc already has the strongest T1 melee unit grunts, now the ultimate melee unit of this race can be built at T2, which changes the balance with all other three races, especially with Human, as OvH games are usually T2 vs T2. Tauren will be a nightmare against breakers and rifles. If so, why the ultimate ground units Knights (Hum) and abominations (UD) cannot be built at T2?

Undead

  • Curse can now target mechanical units
  • Cripple can now target mechanical units
  • Wand of Negation added to the Tomb of Relics (Available at tier 2)
  • Meat Wagon speed increased from 220 to 240

Such buffs are too strong. All the 3 skills of banshees are already super strong: curse is strong against heroes/units (especially those units of high food); the anti-magic shield is almost impossible to be dispeled; the possession is nightmare for all the ultimate ground units (knights, bears, taurens) so players of other races cannot build too many of them, which cause much less damage to the UD army. And the process of Possession CANNOT be dispeled!!! (Compare to this, the Polymorph of sorceress is just a joke: everyone has dispel skill at the late T3 stage.)

If you want to install such changes, I would like to advise the following nerf/buff at least:

For banshees of Undead:

  • During the few seconds to occupy a unit, the Possession can be broken also by dispel magic.

  • And an optional change: the anti-magic shield should be dispeled more easily.

For Human:

  • Let the Mortar and the Siege Machine be able to combine to a real “tank”, which can attack both units and buildings. (And/Or mortars can ride on the flying machines.) The mechanisms are just like archers riding on the hippos.
3 Likes
103

This will require new models and, most importantly, animations. Modern developers (not only modern Blizzard) simply cannot work with this type of graphics, do not have the ability/experience to produce something, that fits into classic graphics.
Just look at female DK face. Modders do ten times better. And, nowadays no one will do animation by hand either, everyone hopes only for mocap