Knight is a tier 3 unit that requires 2 tier 3 upgrades from the same building. It’s just too slow. And Sundering Blades is a much smaller buff than a regular blackmith upgrade. Either remove SB from the game or change it to something else other than %dmg increase.
or just merge it with animal training with other effect.
Blizzard plz consider buffing Orc Great Hall from 145 sec to 135 or even 130 sec…So orc can expend easier on T2 right now its just take to long… 
As casual player its insanely hard to expend on T2 as an Orc its so easy to cancel Orc expansion on T2.
I agree with grubby that Circlet of Nobility cost change is a bit too high. 200gold max seems right
The ghoul movement nerf is way too much. 70 would be sufficient. It takes extreme skill to micro such a fragile unit around mk/tc stuns, to attack the backline of the other player while coiling time at the perfect time or using scrolls to keep them alive.
Yes Happy can make this work but nobody else can so you ruin the game for casual players.
5 Likes
Before anything, thanks for working on this. I really appreciate the effort in keeping the game fun, fresh, and balanced; having these patches on occasion is essential to that!
Whilst I do agree with a lot of the changes, others I’m uncertain about but would like to see play out; however, I’ll comment on the ones that I significantly disagree with and provide an explanation for my disagreement.
Orc
- Troll Headhunter base damage should be kept at 22. I believe that the fact that on pretty much all matchups headhunter builds are an option but not a requirement (meaning that we see equally successful builds with our without headhunters) is a clear sign that the unit is in a great position balance-wise and should not be changed. The small drop in damage could wipe the unit off from play even though it is not oppressive in any matchup.
Undead
- Ghoul Frenzy movement speed bonus should be reduced only to 70 and no further.
Whilst the Ghoul Frenzy push strategy at the highest level is clearly oppressive at the moment, I believe that reducing the movement speed to 50 is too much and would completely eliminate this strategy. It has to be noted that the strategy is extremely skill intensive to execute correctly since it relies on micro control of every ghoul in the early game to use them as the only units for a long time in the early game without losing many of them despite their considerable frailty. The strategy also depends on strict resource management to achieve the frenzy push in as short a time as possible. This skill demonstration should be rewarded with a powerful opportunity to attack. This leads to incredibly interesting gameplay. At the moment, it is clear that the push is too powerful, but thankfully the balance buffs that the Night elves and Orcs have received should give them a better chance at withstanding the push, and a small nerf to the frenzy, reducing the movement speed bonus to 70 should be enough to make other undead strategies worthy of exploration and viable in general. On the other hand, reducing it to 50 as is being proposed would completely kill the strategy and take away one of the most interesting forms of gameplay from the Undead.
Neutral
- Goblin Zeppelin food cost should remain at 0.
Whilst this doesn’t affect the “balance” per se since nearly all strategies are able to incorporate Zeppelin usage, Goblin Zeppelin use gives the game a myriad of very interesting strategies and should be encouraged. Furthermore this change does pose a challenge on the 1base vs 2bases game since the 1base player is generally required to stay at 50 supply to have an opportunity against the 2 base income, and the Zeppelin is often an important tool in giving a chance to the 1 base player to beat the odds and overcome the challenge. As such, holding off that 1 supply in order to access Zeppelin options could have a major impact.
Items
- Circlet of Nobility cost should either remain the same or be increased much less, to 200 at the most.
This item is equally useful to all heroes and as such there should be no balance concerns about its heavy usage, even if it is currently a little under-costed. A small increase in the cost would be acceptable, making the early race to the shop a bit less important, but it’s not that important currently so I don’t see why the change is needed. An increase as large as is being proposed would effectively remove the option to buy it altogether, which makes no sense.
Human
- Control Magic mana per Summoned Hitpoint should remain the same.
The suggestion by Grubby of changing this was originally paired with having a minimum cost so that using control magic on specifically Healing wards, wouldn’t be almost entirely for free. Making the change just like this serves no real purpose.
Thank you for reading this and listening to the community. I know many would like deeper changes to the patch, but these are the ones I’m fully convinced are needed. And thank you for your work on improving this great game!
2 Likes
There was a splendid house with well and trees. While someday exceptionally drought wave arrived at the balance house. No water in the well and trees bunt down. Bravely firefighters did their best effort to protect with their PTR1 and 2. Unfortunately, the balance house finally bunt out because someone play Flame Strike and it’s channel time reduced by 0.1 seconds.
The PTR 3 is terrible to game balance and some change need to be reverted clearly.
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Rifleman HP increased from 535 to 545 & Troll Headhunter base damage reduced from 22 to 21？
So you nerf Headhunter and creat Headman in the same patch? The one who suggested to buff rifleman at current meta should be fired from Meatwagon into Sacrificial Pit without delay. This process will provide a True Sight for him and as long as you dev team hear his biased voice there is no hope to balance the game. Rifleman is already an overused versatile unit since it buffed in attack speed. There is no reliable reason to buff a unit widely used in all 3 matchups.
For headhunter, this unit should not be nerfed simply because you had done similar nerf in previous patch and that change very harm to the Orc race so you had to reverted the HP of HH back to 375. Why repeating a mistake once again? These 2 change at same time is nearly an official claim that HUM race is unbeatable for Orc race in balance change which is really unfair, should be canceled simultaneously. -
Polymorph can now target Heroes & Tauren changes reverted？
Please tell us why T2 tauren class change can survive in PTR 3 after tauren’s reverted? Ah really unbeatable. -
Wand of Negation added to the Tomb of Relics (2 Charges, 150 Gold, 5 second cooldown - Available at tier 2 - Requires Temple of the Damned)？
??Requires a T2 building for shop items?? Weird more than my words, if you found this item unlock at T2 is overperformed, why not setting a longer initial time for this Wand? Hardly to believe this is a long time waited PTR3 change. -
Ghoul Frenzy movement speed bonus reduced from 80 to 50 ?
Bad change, Significantly nerf all the tactics without DK’s aura. PTR2 is a way better related to Frenzy 120. -
Curse Duration reduced from 120/60 to 60/30 & Curse can no longer target mechanical units again (reverted)？
When you did such a change to Curse, the debuff can be cast on mechanical units. And now it couldn’t like old days, then why this change survived in PTR 3?
These 2 change at same time is nearly an official claim that HUM race is unbeatable for UD race in balance change which is really unfair, should be canceled at least on one side. -
Force of Nature mana cost reduced from 100 to 95？
If you really wanna to buff KOG, just giving back his 1 initial intelligence nerfed before. Or add some passive skills for lv2 and lv3 Treants.
The following changes need some review or adjustment.
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Wisp HP increased from 120 to 130
Wisp cost 80% golds compare to other workers, however the HP of wisp is only less than 55% from a standard worker’s HP(220).
Wisp unconditionally killed by LV.1 nova 1 hit, no way to counter. This is what exactly imbalance is and this point should be fixed.
The 80% HP of a standard worker unit is 176. Since NE is a race with lowerhp the HP of wisp should be reset at 160.
If any race have oppsite view just make their worker with 60 gold and 160 HP. -
Control Magic mana per Summoned Hitpoint reduced from 45 to 35
It’s ok as long as this skill is unlock at T3. But everyone knows, nerf to HUM race will be reverted so this skill will become T2 in the future.
Similar example: poly manacost reduced from 220 to 200 and now it cast on heros, while the mana cost doesn’t change back to 220. -
Circlet of Nobility cost increased from 175 to 250
Clearly, 175 for Circlet is too cheap so almost every hero buy it without hesitation. While the cost 250 is an over-dramatical change. The option 200 or 225 is a way better. -
Goblin Zeppelin food cost increased from 0 to 1
Why? Unlike other 3 race, Hum need Zeppelin to protect workers from AOE spell. This change is neutral at first glance, however potentially harm the economy of HUM.
P.S The plan to import Kodo as Third hero of Ne is somewhat more needed after PTR3.
P.S.S It’s never too late to start practise the Spellbreaker Mirror since we never know when endless buff to HUM race touch the roof. Or there is no limit at all?
1 Like
It’s hard to imagine that if these changes were implemented in the latest official patch, a large number of players would choose to abandon this game.
- The strengthening of the human race is too great, and the musketeer’s health has been constantly increasing, and the attack frequency is also increasing. This is simply unimaginable
- The wind rider of the orc race does not change its strength by reducing its experience points. The aura of the Tauren chieftain should also provide a 30% movement speed bonus at level 3 (the same as the Death Knight) as before. As for the Tauren, well, even increasing their movement speed by 10 points will not change anything. I think the more important thing is the collision volume and turning time, because this guy is too clumsy.
- The change of the undead has made me understand. Blizzard, you have been targeting the Russian player Happy, regardless of your goals. This is your game. If you think he has won too many championships, well, you can ban him from participating in certain competitions. I think you have this right, but you should know that undead players from different countries around the world think that continuous change of the undead is terrible. Think about 1.27, almost all the core things of the undead have been weakened, and it is huge (including halo movement speed and soul touch of the statue). So, stop these, at least let undead players continue to stick to this game, and players love it more than argue.
- The KOG of Night Elves, this hero is already very powerful and has played a significant role in the early harassment and mid to late support. The current version’s values will be better, so there is no need to make any further changes. Other changes, Blizzard, will depend on your understanding of the game, because its changes are a balance point for other game parameters. To be honest, these also affect a group of non professional players, but please do not excessively favor or weaken a certain race.
1 Like
Except for the human race, the changes in the other three races are all very significant, including many weakened items. The enhancement of the human race is huge, and the weakened items are very small. I don’t know what this means. If everyone goes to play the human race, this game will lose its meaning. The changes in PTR are simply destructive and corrupt
4 Likes
Wisp stronger than other workers and can hide from all spells.
But need more buff hp from 120(130) to 135 mb for now
IDK. with rifles you’re basically legally obligated to use Paladin otherwise it just doesn’t work. And it’s such a small buff anyway. I’m fine with it. making them ever so slightly better may make it more possible to use them with different starting heroes.
Can anyone explain why Blizzard keeps buffing HUM when HUM already dominates both W3C ladder and the pro scene?
The latest WAL has 4 HUM players in top 8.
The only person that keeps Undead viable in pro scene is Happy. Other undead players haven’t won for a long time. Undead is basically unplayable on ladder and players have mostly abandoned the game. Night Elf is also basically dead in pro scene.
What’s Blizzard’s goal for the new patch? Forcing everyone to play HUM?
4 Likes
Just rethink the patch before final release 
So many buffs for NE and HUM…
Another patch of crazy buffs just for those 2 races that’s fu****g unfair!
Leave +20% bonus speed for gloves
don’t touch circlets
Buff taurens MORE
+2 agility for BM hero
revert buffs for keeper and wisps
just buff more ORC race dude or everyone will play NE / HUM now!!!
1 Like
If you really want to increase Circlet cost, for gods sake revert the Blademaster nerf and increase his stats. He is only viable right now if you buy a circlet in the early game. I dont want to play Far Seer only in all match ups… Sigh
2 Likes
U want to exchange other race shop?
arcane vault?vooddooo lounge ?acient fo wonders?
Saying that bersekers should be nerf cause ghouls are being nerf does not seems like a good argument. With that point, every expo should be faster this patch cause UD expo is, or that all towers should be nerfed cause arcane is. Also, it is not like bersekers are dominating the meta in the same fashion as ghouls are, is ok not to treat them the same. That being said, it may be ok to reduce 1 dmg to bersekers, but maybe we should w8 for the next patch for that.
I do agree that the rifle buff may not be necessary since rifles are decent already, but human have received two big nerfs on things that are currently used, so getting one buff on that line seems reasonable. The polymorph buff is fun and potentially strong, but I think won’t matter on most games. Rifles are mostly used against NE, which is getting much stronger this patch, it probably will be ok there. Against orc it can be a problem, but rifles are usually a transition unit, not an ultimate unite, on that MU (at least if a high lvl tc is involved). And maybe this compensates with arcane nerf, which is a big deal. Against UD rifles see no play at all. They die just too fast against nuke. Maybe this can help a bit for HU to play 1 base vs UD (in some rare scenarios). More strats viable (as long as they are not broken) is always more fun.
I do agree with a nerubian nerf. Spirit towers are the damage dealer tower for the UDs, if nerubians are as well, they overlap roles. Is like with HU, that u have to mix towers cause arcane towers are not damage dealers. But more important than that, UD now has the fastest fast expo (if no player cancels the enemy expo). And once UD puts a nerubian, that expo is virtually unbreakable. A hero lvl 3 and some ghouls can defend almost any attack in tier 1 and early tier 2. If expansions are reasonably vulnerable we get more dynamic/interesting games. I think the ideal point we should reach is that an UD expo with 1-2 towers should be relatively safe, but not unbreakable by a 45-50 pop army.
1 Like
surely this is because NE players never practice. Have a look at how many games Happy and Fortitude play each season and have a look at the number of games Moon and Lawliet play each season. NE is the strongest race with the worst players. In reality, NE with 2000MMR wins Human players with 2200 MMR easily.
1 Like
Thank you
You can do some small value increases for all tavern heroes across the board and it would benefit the game a lot and nobody would mind e.g.
Life drain, rain of fire, summon doomguard, summon hawk, summon bear pocket factory, cluster rockets
Like 5 extra dmg kind of stuff would be hella exciting 
If you want to touch headhunters go for the middle ground of past patches and remove 5hp from them
If you want to buff wyvern why dont you start with giving them +10 hp, will make micro easier and still reward heroes with xp for killing them