UD is better than NE. UD win most Champion. over 3 years
in 136.1 UD counter NE&ORC
it’s awful banlance
UD_Players have won Champion that do not belong to them, and they should repay their debts in the coming years
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I have some questions to devteam:
First question - Do we have any race that have item which becomes available on Non-Tier condition?
Second question - Do you think medium and pro players will prefer t2 WoN build to t3 orb?
Third question - Do you think this item buffs undead, cause it needs + to multitasking?
Fourth question - Why only undead has to have only 1 item at T3?
And big request to devteam. Can you not allow people who dont know how to balance games to do it?
3 Likes
Fourth question - Why only undead has to have only 1 item at T3?
R U seriously?
Thats actually resonable to be honest.
Fat? They are cute “cows” right xd
If its +3 all atributes it can be 250
Im not sure about making haunted faster. Keep in mind it can be built while creeping. This may be a bit too much for instant expo (when ur 1st creep camp is an expo). Maybe make that a haunted that is being built is 1st priority for creeps to compensate, so at least you can not start a haunted before creeping.
I see why curse if being nerfed. It lasts much longer than some other tier 2 debuff. But I think that is ok, you can have some very asymmetric things in the game, and curse never seemed to me like a major balance problem. If any, AMS or possession could use a small nerf rather than curse.
I also don’t agree with the control magic buff. HU needs a buff on early-mid game, maybe even on early tier 3, but not an ultra late game buff, on that stage HU is already strong (if not the strongest). Maybe rifles could be a bit more manoeuvrable, reduce their turn rate or collision size or something, those are some of the clumsiest units on the game. Are similar to fiends, but with fiends you usually have coil to heal and a movement aura.
ps: please nerf nova range on lvl 1 to 600, or at least 700 
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yes, i’m serious about that. i dont think anyone has explanaition.
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Agree about polymorph, more herokill of undead heroes. Orb was not enough.
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Cause is not a symmetric game. Curious that u ask that and not ask why UD is the only race with a summoning item or a dispell item. Rod is crazy strong. And any other race to have dispell has to go tier 2, get a tier 2 building, train a unit and in most cases get a research for that unit.
UD has BY FAR the strongest tier 1 items. As a HU player I would trade my tier 1 items for the UD tier 1 items any time. It also has the best orb in the game (the advantage of NE orb is that you can have more than one and still have good return on it).
Yes, UD has some weak points. So, your overall question is ¨why ud has some weaknesses?¨… well my dear friend, to make the game balance
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First of all, ud orb can be compinsated , human orb cannot. Human orb became the strongest orb.
Secondly, not the strongest healing item in shop. Sacrifice unit for healing it become more expensive, even if its summon. I want to see how you will sacrifice units to heal army as human player.
“Why ud has some weaknesses?” - no its not the question i asked. I asked concrete questions and you cannot answer them.x
And by the way, i asked devs, not you. I address my question to concrete people.
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Taurens need to be at tier 0. Would be better.
I said I would trade my tier 1 items, not only the dagger. Each skeleton costs 18.75 gold, that is the extra gold u need to use for dagger. It also has a secondary use: to deny unit and xp. Dagger is not a bad item. I admit it is not a very good item either. Rod is the one super good tier 1 item. The best, by far, tier 1 item. It enables UD early creep with any hero and fast expand on a lot of scenarios. Gives powerful timings on tier 2 allowing to summon 4-8 skeletons as soon as you have 2 heroes. It is a crazy good item.
You really think HU orb is the best? is situational at best. Is very good vs UD, that is true. But only half-decent vs orc if they go SH (but useless vs FS TC) and almost useless vs NE. On the other hand, the UD orb is ALWAYS good, vs any race, vs any hero, its always good. You say it can be compensated, how? by defend upgrades? In that case is not being compensated, it negated the defend upgrades. By spells giving armor? those can be dispelled. By devotion aura? yes, you got me, if u get paladin level 4 that negates the orb at the cheap price of 2 hero spells on devotion aura…
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Orb is useful vs all. It decrease incoming healing from all sources. Potions, scrolls , wards etc.
better just move statues into temple
Yes, but a great deal of healing is done outside battle. The orb has the most impact vs single target healing spells. Healing scrolls and wards are AOE healing, so does not affect that much. To save heroes on battles is more common to use invu potions than healing potions. And HU does not have much burst damage vs NE/ORC besides MK, you do not need to save heroes on battle as often as you need vs coil+nova.
Against UD is another story, there the orb is VERY GOOD. ud uses single target healing spells and HU does have bolt+holy light as burst damage to nuke heroes and force healing in battle. I do agree, vs UD the orb is great. Maybe in that particular MU is better the human orb than the undead orb, but that is it.
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These are all typos, but then there’s this…
But other than that, cool changes! Tauren at T2 were a nice idea, and now the Wyverns’ (shoutout to the classic name!) XP buffed? And tiny buffs to the Rifles, Dragonhawks and even the Blood Mage? And the demolisher/glaive/wagon movespeed buffs?
Although still not too sure on the Moon Well and Nature’s Blessing buffs to the Elf.
Rifleman is so strong now that he doesn’t need any buffs. If you give him buffs, he will destroy the balance
9 Likes
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Tranquility cooldown reduced from 120 seconds to 100 seconds - seems too strong along with moonwell buffs. Should not be changed at all
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Wisp HP increased from 120 to 130 - seems to be breaking the mechanics in the Elf vs Undead matchup of skelly hit+ coil lvl1. 125 hp maybe?
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Haunted Goldmine build time reduced from 110 to 105 - good change in the hum-ud matchup
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Wand of Negation now has a 5-second cooldown - good.
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Wand of Negation now requires Temple of the Damned - BAD design decision making the item almost not usable. Maybe it’s better to link it to the slaughterhouse, so it will be accessible, but not at early tier 2, so elf and human will still have a window to attack the ud base at t2. Nobody’s gonna play the temple at T2 only for this item. The item needs to be more accessible. Making it a bit more expensive might be the best way possible.
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Ghoul Frenzy movement speed bonus reduced from 80 to 50 - too much along with the damage and research time reduction the nerf multiplies. 60 value would be fine, not that low and slow.
Maybe we need more damage, like 14-16 (if you keep the wisp hp buff??? - for ghoul hit+coil 100% efficiency)
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Ghoul Frenzy research time reduced from 60 to 50 seconds - fine
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Frost Attack duration on Heroes increased from 3 to 4 seconds - good change
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Abomination base damage increased from 32 to 34 -good, but all big and slow units (taurens, aboms) should have the same collision size of 32 to be of equal power with knights.
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Tauren changes reverted (back to tier 3 and have reduced build time) - good
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Tauren move speed increased from 270 to 290 + collision size of 32, maybe 40 (if possible) needed
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Wind Rider (Wyverns) XP level reduced from 4 to 3 - too much, will be spammable, maybe buff hp a bit?
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Rifleman HP increased from 535 to 545 - too much for low level hum-ud matchup. Will be abused a lot, as it’s easy to perform. Will be abused at top lvl vs elf.
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Dragonhawk Rider base damage increased from 17 to 19 - too much. Will be used vs everyone, except orc. It’s an already strong unit.
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Flame Strike channel time reduced from 0.9 to 0.8 seconds - good
would like to see a nerf to banish duration vs heroes and manadrain. Maybe need a bit more hp for the hero.
Items
- Circlet of Nobility cost increased from 175 to 250. 200 value will be ok.
Also, I think we need an hp buff for crypt fiends, as they’re almost unplayable now vs human, orc and elf at t1-t2. 600 hp buff from 550 will make them better and more playable.
WE STILL NEED ANTIMAGIC SHIELD OF BANSHEES UNDISPELLABLE BY THE UNDEAD DESTROYER TO MAKE THE BANSHEES PLAYABLE IN THE UD-UD MATCH UP, OTHERWISE IT’S A DESTROYER META, WHICH IS REALLY BAD.
2 Likes
really, flame strike from 0.9 to 0.8 cast time? Why not to 0.899?! Like wtf, this hero is literally the worst first pick hero in the game and THIS is your buff?! Imagine frost nova doesnt hit air, hit YOUR units, show when it will be casted, cast on ground area, doesnt slow, have DoT on ground type of damage AND cast 0.8 sec? Imagine? - its called cr@p spell on cr@p hero!
1 Like