Thanks to the new Shield Battery, Void Ray quadruple buff, and Protoss being far easier to play compared to both Terran and Zerg, Zerg cannot defeat Skytoss amove power in late game anymore.
The only hope for Zerg players now is to all-in every game before Skytoss army grows too much. If Protoss gets into late game, Zerg have no chance.
Is it really that hard to make hydras or infestors? Or tech up in a similar fashion as the Protoss?
hah, hahahaha, like i’m usually not one to balance whine, but that is just hilarious, build hydras?? infestor? against sky toss… not on my watch.
just watch them fly side to side sniping bases while marching zealots across whatever side their air currently isn’t at, i’m sorry but no, hydras usually don’t cut it unless they run their air units directly over top of them and do not notice.
Bro Hydras don’t even SCRATCH Skytoss once Skytoss reach a certain number.
…of High Templars.
In a lot of ways i feel like this is a good thing. Protoss having a point zerg really don’t want to let them get too adds a lot to the match up. It’s kind of like not letting zerg freely take the entire map, and drone as much as they like. If you lose to that it’s really your fault. You shouldn’t complain that there is no army you can build turtling up on your 2 base, that beats a 5 base zerg. You need to stop them.
It’s really the same with protoss, if you let them turtle on 3 bases, and put no preasure on them. Let them get what ever they want, they will be the most god awful army to defeat, and that’s fine, and that’s your fault.
It’s better than a year ago, when Zerg late game was way stronger than protoss, so protoss literally had no options vs zerg other than rush, since our only option was to shut them down hard. We now have 2 choices, shut them down or build our uber army that takes ages to build. Each strategy has counters, and i think its a much better place for the match up.
I think the problem is that Zerg late game was king for a long time, that we now have so many Zerg who used to be masters/GM from playing that, and now it’s really not a thing anymore. They’re quite angry about it.
Like it used to just be defend/macro until you were unstoppable as zerg, and now that never happens. They don’t have to beat your defenses or lose, you have to attack at some point
Case in point BatZ -the forum mathemagician that is inventing all kinds of metrics and squareing the circle in order to support his ridiculous narrative.
You’re so clueless you dont even get it. Build hydras vs mass zealot / carriers / psi storm. Lets see how that turns out.
Its not that PvZ is out of hand. Toss is just broken. It just a matter of how toss wants to win.
You kill a good number of probes. so what they have chrono.
Do they want to canno rush.
Do they want to proxi temp/ voids.
do they want to turtle to sky toss.
do they want to mass shield batterries.
If that doesnt work they can always fall back on their op splash options.
What is frustrating about all of those options that I mentioned. They are all viable options for toss to win and they are not punishable. if you defend these said strat you transition into a normal game.
Did you guys noticed how I didnt mention a normal macro game. Toss doesnt have to play a normal game. They dont have to play honest Terran has to play somewhat honest because they can lose, zerg has to play someone honest as well. They just cant get 80 drones without at least building queens and ling/bane.
Then you got toss. shield battery forrest. straight to sky toss. they are not even attempting to hide it or play a honest game. In fact they are not hiding any of their strategies. Its a game of stop them if you can.
Its ironic that the same zerg players now see that toss is broken now that they are getting A moved as well. Who would have thought that Zerg would get A moved… cant make this stuff up.
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BLIZZARD CLEAN UP YOUR TRASH AND FIX YOUR GAME.
It is like much more broken than mech was against zerg in 2015.
I played on and off thorugh a lot of periods and I dont think there is anything more broken than P right now… Even P doesnt want to play against P becuase its so broken.
At least the match up is balanced by definition.
Literally just blind whining at this point from multiple people and not worth engaging in conversation at this point. Dead thread as usual from the regular whiners
Protoss can have their first void ray out at 3:40 seconds. 8 minutes is the absolute fastest hive a Zerg could rush (which unlocks PB, a counter to voids). 10-12 minutes is much more likely.
Still interested to see in what exact hots patch you want us to return to…
Not really.
Void rays now do for skytoss what infestors did for BL infestor in WoL.
They’re an easily acquired tech that allows you to safely hold your side of the map while going up directly into your endgame army. The fact that they’re good vs corruptors (one of the units you’d want for a lot of anti-skytoss timings) is just the icing on the cake. Your defense unit doesn’t even lose value in your lategame army.
In recent tournament play, I’ve seen Zerg GG out a bunch trying timings to kill just before carriers hit the map, and I’ve only seen Zerg win once vs skytoss. That was Dark (world champion) vs ShowTime (EU #5), and despite the fact that ShowTime botched some recalls massively and had undefended clumps of army walking corner to corner across creep it was still close.
Recently I was on the fence, but I don’t really think PvZ lategame is reasonable right now.
Did I miss a patch?
Was there something in Nov - January?
It always amuses me how Terran and zerg whine about the possible builds protoss can use while not realizing this is way harder in a pvp because the way how protoss is designed You get hard countered or You counter hard. Also cannon Rush is for example most effective vs protoss.
Each build requires a well thought counter Build which is why pvp is so messy. Which is why zest vs zoun was crazy. But protoss Players are used to know and to Play against 1000 build order Variants. Why arent You? You Bad?
Voidrays got buffed and also now have a speed upgrade which has resulted in a meta of SG openers that lend themselves well to transitioning into Skytoss.
I have to disagree with you this time around. The reason why Protoss gets a reputation for being a-movey from the Zergs perspective is because hydras get absolutely decimated by Carrier, storm. Hydras actually suck against 8-9 carriers and against 8-9 carriers with storm its even more 1 sided. The trades of Zerg are for every carrier you lose 20 hydras. Its really that bad. Microbial shroud doesn’t seem to work and is pretty horrible spell and is way to weak imo.
This is the crux of the problem of late-game PvZ imo from the Zergs perspective from what know. I might be wrong but Zerg seems to be reliant on hydras against air and its not as simple as well you can make 10 infestors or add in 10 corruptors when the opponent is constantly pressuring you with runbuys and prisms at a high level. For any changes lets not try to add in Infested Terrans as that was broken and ridiculously Overpowered in every single iteration of starcraft in its entire 10 year history. (Yes I hate that unit for ruining ZvT and ZvP and WOL). Lets also not nerf Templar feedback range cos its terrible to be on the losing side of the war of attrition where Zerg is favored and Protoss can’t do anything. Buff the shroud, seriously it bridges the gap of Zerg’s weakness. I suggested it should reduce aoe attacks by 35% how about aoe spells only so that it has very little effect in ZvT. Change the disruptor attack from spell damage to normal damage and change its damage from 145 to 150 to preserve unit interactions that we have. Really i don’t think Shroud will be overpowered if my version was locked behind a 100/100 Hive upgrade. but I can imagine it would a useful ability that will add a new dynamic into PvZ, a back and forth dynamic of shroud, disruptor, storm from Protoss and the Zerg trying to move trough and fall back into shroud and micro away from disruptor hits. Shroud is currently terrible but it has huge potential to introduce new gameplay, why is it terrible? when beastyqt says its terrible you know it sucks and does nothing to change the outcome of a fight in practice.
PvZ, once it gets to lategame of mass spore, Carriers lose their potency and Protoss needs to rely on Tempest/HighTemplar/Disruptor vs Zerg spell casters and this is where the skill of Protoss players shine. Its not as lopsided as mid to late game because controlling Tempest/HighTemplar/Disruptor is first of all NOT an A-move compositon and the skillcap of controlling these 3 Protoss units dancing with Zerg spellcasters is literally infinite. And the war of attrition between Protoss and Zerg is far less lopsided compared to when the Zerg is relying on Hydras.
I’m trying to be as fair as possible i can understand the frustration from the Zergs perspecive. But I won’t go about nerfing the Voidray or Protoss to oblivion because that does not make the gameplay any much more fun and we’re back again at the first half of 2020 where Protoss was god awful yet again.
Ha finally zerg reallize hydra not counter to unit who s another tech tier and suppose serve as weapon who clear field from cheap unit old days witch graviton catapult