The common sense interpretation of the real time strategy genre is that time is your most valuable resource because you have limited time to input your actions into the game, meaning having to do longer actions or more actions is equivalent to being harder because it’s harder to fit more actions (or longer actions) into the same amount of time.
You have 3 seconds to do 5 actions.
You have 3 seconds to do 500 actions.
Which one is harder? It’s painfully obvious how this works, but you guys pretend like you don’t get it. My argument is the common sense interpretation of the rts genre and to pretend otherwise is facially absurd. We might as well start talking about unicorns if you believe apm is merely an “inflation” metric.
Again, you aren’t tracking your performance to see what happens when your apm is higher or lower. If you did, you’d find you are more likely to lose when your apm demands are high, because you have to pick either inject OR something else, but not both, because your apm limits are taxed. When your apm limits are taxed, you make mistakes because you can’t do everything and inject puts you closer to that limit thereby increases the probability of a mistake. At high levels, the time requirement of inject definitely interferes with your ability to micro and do other such tasks in the game. It’s absurd that anyone belles otherwise.
I’m only talking about rapid-fire for larva, not injects. Obviously, if I’ve spent 90% of the opening minute holding down the Z-key, I’m going to have a higher average APM.
As long as the time cost is non zero my argument is true. Any action that takes >0 seconds to complete has a time cost and if it has a time cost it contributes to the difficulty of the rts genre because the entire idea of the rts genre is to limit how much time you have to input your actions – that’s what separates it from turn based strategy where you can take as long as you want to do a single move. In rts, you have to make your move or the game leaves you behind. Any action with a non-zero time-cost contributes to the difficulty of the game, period. Yes, that includes rapid fired abilities.
“It’s not a meaningful action”. Laughable. Try hitting “R” to make roaches and then finding out you hit “T” instead which made mutalisks. It happens all the time to zerg players. PiG calls the “accidental swarm host” the “rando calrissian”. That’s how common it is. What units you make, how many you make, all this is extremely important and is encoded in the inject rapid fire. The fact that inject happens rapidly is actually an argument for why inject is super hard. Getting the proper unit comps encoded in rapid fire waves is very hard. Yet you are acting like the speed of the action makes it an “inflation.” It’s a complete inversion of reality. The fact inject is rapid fired is exactly why it’s a hard ability that makes it difficult to play zerg.
If you watch pro zerg games you’ll see in the opening their APM shoots over 900 sometimes. That’s only possible with rapid fire, which takes no mouse movement, or thought.
You’re conflating peak apm with a player’s average apm over all their games. Sure you can find a hotdog stand that sells a hotdog for $1,000,000 bucks, but is that indicative of how hotdogs are typically priced? No it is not.
The common sense interpretation of the rts genre is that any action with a non zero time cost contributes to the hardness of the game. This is equivalent to saying more actions is harder than fewer actions. Because zerg requires more actions to play, it’s simply a fact of the rts genre that zerg is harder.
Brother who are you talking too lol. Your explanations are hey look at my irrelevant stats links that I know no one will click on lol. Is your strategy to bore me to death lol.
Like I know you like massively long paragraphs and not actually saying anything but lets try something nice and concise.
ME play same number of games zerg toss WHY me win more zerg and have more apm not feel harder???
Like I ask you why should I care about gm when the only relevant players to me are the ones i play in other leagues and whatever 2 guys winter shows when I watch on youtube and your response was akin too. All starcraft flows though me my changes will trickle down and up as i have decided i am the center of the universe here is the proof. Links study about pollution in china. AS you can see the pollution in china is like protoss in starcarft clearly overpowered. This is how you sound to every person who reads any of your stuff XD.
Why zerglings? Macro is hard in general, that’s why there’s a big difference in quality of macro between a gm and a bronze. Anyone who has ever played sc2 knows this, but apparently not kelthar or his alt accounts.
It’s funny that he pretends like they aren’t his accounts when his opinions about the game are so delusional that you could survey 10,000 people and you wouldn’t be able to find a single person who agrees with him but, of course, there are 4 – FOUR OF THEM, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN – who agree with him here in this thread. Common sense dictates this guy is upvoting himself because he can’t get anyone to agree with such a bad opinion. The biggest insult is that he actually thinks I am dumb enough to fall for such an obvious ploy.
The irony of this statement is that BatZ is unable to comprehend that there might be more than one person that disagrees with what he says, because he believes everything he says is basically gospel.
“Macro is hard” is a fact of reality, if you disagree then you’re living in another dimension. My position is the only reasonable position here and the fact that you act like it isn’t is a form of a lie. Sorry, it is. We could survey 10,000 sc2 players and every single one would say that spending your money on time is hard. It is a fact of how the game genre operates on a very basic level.
That’s how I know you are the same guy on multiple accounts. You couldn’t find 5 people willing to say something so wrong if you searched high and low for 10 years. Yet we are supposed to believe “whoops, 5 people here magically don’t understand the game & have the same exact wrong interpretation of the game.”
It’s just too obvious dude. Get a life, my man. We’ve got a weekend coming up. Why don’t you stop trolling the forums and go camping this weekend. Find an arcade & don’t come home until you win their top prize. There are things you can do with your life that will be a hundred times more fruitful than trolling the forums. There is literally no point to trolling the internet. But if you are going to troll, you have to make it believable. “ReEEEeeEe reality is fake!” is just cringe. Nobody is going to believe that. Trolls have to be subtle. Your trolling is more like a train horn. Everyone in 25 miles knows you’re trolling because it’s just that obvious. This is so obvious it could be spotted from outer space. I am genuinely insulted that you think I am dumb enough to fall for this. It’s quite literally offensive. Nobody, not one person, could possibly fall for such an obvious troll.
Go play terran or protoss and show us how high your apm gets. Try to get higher apm WITHOUT pointless spamming. Then come back. Show us the proof. Replay, EaPM etc. With equal skill zerg always gets higher apm due to rapid fire, injects and creep spread.
I do not deny that zergs can accidentally queue wrong units but it does not mean zerg is harder than the other two races and you never publicly admitted that.
Been a terran main for years. My peak mmr (6200) was with terran. You think it’s a coincidence Innovation is my favorite player and I leap at any opportunity to gush over him? I’ve also been to gm with toss once. You are as blind as a cave bat my man.