So in my pursuit of digging into more and more technical nerdy stuff, I recalled this little gem of a discussion. The debate goes that “it is generally believed Energy Mastery is better than Attack Mastery”. So I decided to take a more detailed look into it.
This applies to only P3 Apex Predator due to its unique buff nature
Basic attack information:
Base 30dmg x 1.5 attack cooldown = 20DPS.
With Medusa Blade, 20DPS + (50% x 20DPS x 3) = 50DPS. <correction made
With Attack Mastery 60dmg x 1.5 = 40DPS.
Mastery + Medusa, 40DPS + (50% x 40DPS x 3) = 100DPS.
Basic energy information:
Base regeneration is 2energy/sec (Apex benefit, P0 is 1/sec).
With Energy Mastery is 1energy/sec x 1.3 (30% mastery) x 2 (100% Apex benefit) = 2.6energy/sec.
Important to note with mastery 25energy/9.6sec, 30energy/11.5sec.
Important to note without 25energy/12.5sec, 30energy/15sec.
The two major damage contributor outside of basic attack is Baneling Barrage and Hunter Killers.
Baneling Barrage 110dmg x 6 = 660dmg vs 190dmg x 6 = 1140dmg structure, 10sec cooldown.
With mastery, a continuous Baneling Barrage can be cast every 9.6sec, this is 660 / 9.6 = 68.75DPS vs 118.75DPS structure
Without, BB can only be cast every 12.5sec, this is 660 / 12.5 = 52.8DPS vs 91.2DPS structure.
Hunter Killers 20dmg x 0.83 = 24DPS, with a 20sec cooldown and duration. 6 x 24DPS = 145DPS.
With mastery, a continuous HK can be cast every 20sec. 11.5sec required for continuous cast, leaving 8.5sec x 2.6energy/sec = 22.1 banked energy.
Without, in every 20sec, 15sec required for continuous cast, leaving 5sec x 2energy/sec = 10 banked energy.
Since HK provides more DPS, for Energy Mastery, this is 145DPS (HK) + 68.75DPS x (22.1/25) + 50 = 254DPS total with Energy Mastery, (300DPS structure).
Similarly for Attack Mastery, 145DPS + 52.8DPS x (10/25) + 100DPS = 266DPS total with Attack Mastery, (281.5DPS structure).
There are some assumptions made here. [1] All damage can be applied at all times for both cases. [2] Attack Mastery loses more DPS for every non-full Medusa than Energy Mastery. [3] Energy Mastery loses significantly more DPS for every cast missed or non-continuous than Attack Mastery, due to the 'next to 0 energy depletion mechanic'. {4} This is a caveat, P3 provides a small 3sec window for Baneling Barrage (cooldown reduced to 7sec), which can be used for burst damage. This is too difficult to quantify, yet nonetheless available to Energy Mastery.
Clearly the DPS numbers are not that significantly different. A barrage is a barrage that splashes the same and kills the same. HKs are HKs and will kill unless otherwise dies prematurely before its duration. My personal opinion and choice has been Attack Mastery, this is due to the real-time nature of basic attacks. A unit that dies to a straight 60 dmg or 30 x 3 medusa splash will not be present during the next attack iteration. During this time, Zagara will take additional damage (which she's not known for sustain, even with the 20HP regen vs 26HP regen of Energy Mastery).
As always, I am not here to tell you how or what to choose in mastery. However, in my testing for these, one thing is clear - both mastery perform similarly.
I think it’s the other way around. Energy mastery allows for more faults in management because you can reliably recast.
The numbers are only there to show the difference is not significant. Yet, the belief is that Energy Mastery does more damage. Surprisingly for me, it actually wasn’t the case.
That isn’t to say one is superior to another. Definitely a play style. However, choosing Attack Mastery actually means you have to make every cast count because you can’t rely on another cast to kill the same clump of enemies.
Also, keep in mind that Mass Frenzy also plays into this equation. It favours Energy Mastery similarly in its frequency of cast but disfavours it in the lack of overall DPS. Proving yet again the similar output for both choices.
The deciding factor for me is that bonuses to attack damage do not apply to medusa blades (only the primary target) according to sources that I’ve read.
I find is best applying her abilities and moving around to minimise the damage that she takes. The good thing about HKs and BB is that their DPS applies even if you are moving.
I can tell you it does. 60 + 3 x 30 vs 30 + 3 x 15. Hope that helps.
In fact, I had to specifically test this several times to determine the damaged group of marines, in terms of “how many targets Medusa affects” and “how much damage”.
Those calculations are off… for the Baneling DPS it should be
660 (or 1140) * energy banked/25energy /20 seconds
So
33 (or 57) *(energy banked/25)
Also
Base attack with no Mastery
30 dmg / 1.5 attack cooldown =20 DPS, so it is 50 DPS not 33.3 DPS overall
which changes the results to
Energy Mastery=145+33 x (22.1/25) +50 =224 DPS …247.868 v buildings
Atttack Mastery=145+33 x(10/25)+100=258.2 DPS …270 v buildings
So Attack Mastery is clearly better… if you ignore that banelings splash
Attack damage: self-explained Number of attack per second: how many attack can a unit does every second. Weapon/attack cooldown: the time it take for the next attack to happen
The relationship of Number of attack per second and Weapon/attack cooldown is Number of attack per second = 1 : Weapon/attack cooldown
For example, an unit with 0.75s attack cooldown will have
1 : 0.75 = ~1.333 Number of attack per second
If the attack damage is 20
The DPS will be
1st formula: 20 x 1.333 = ~26.66 DPS
2nd formula: 20 : 0.75 = ~26.66 DPS
It can be easily mistaken but this is how much damage a unit may deal in average every second.
Been doing 10 energy regen, 20 attack with P3 ever since Dehakaburger posted once that was what he did.
Not saying if Dehakaburger jumped out the window I would follow him, but for Starcraft content his suggestions are worth trying.
With 10 points in energy regen P3 I can pretty much spam her abilities but I wonder if I still be able to spam her abilities in P3 with 0 points in energy regen.
I’ve misread it somewhere. Changed the basic attack DPS. Thanks.
I think even with the change, the difference is the that Attack VS Energy makes little difference.
If the provided numbers are correct via the wiki page. As it is the basis of my analysis (testing in-game energy regen would be a pain lol). Then that 10pts gives you 0.2extra energy/sec.
Small extra bit tbh. Then again, so is 0.6 for the full 30pts. I suspect that even a 10/20 split or any other won’t change the math too much. Therefore, neither will your performance.
All my nerdy calculations aside, the biggest influencing factor is still the user being able to accurately aim every BB optimally, position Apex properly, and keeping HKs alive continuously. So nothing new haha.
If I get your calculation right you included for the auto attack the Medusa bonus, aka the damage done to first unit + 50% done to three other units (fake AOE).
Yet it also seems you assume each baneling is single target. Why?
While hydras are great to have at all times I’d assume banelings are the wave clearers, those who do the most damage. If both masteries were close without baneling AOE does it mean energy mastery does a lot more damage (as commonly believed) once we take into account AOE?
Regarding Baneling Barrage. There is no actual difference in damage between Energy Mastery vs Attack Mastery when compared each cast to cast. The difference in DPS is in how often Energy casts over Attack Mastery. This is why it is firstly easier to calculate via primary target.
As to the splash issue. There is no real way to quantify this since you can’t equate 1 group of marines (let’s say 10 x 65HP) with another group of zerglings (let’s say 20 x 45HP) vs any other groups. Basically that variance is too large.
What ultimately determines on its actual damage if you included splash is in user’s ability to use them. This is why I replied to Kyrie that Energy Mastery is actually more mistake friendly and requires less APM.
In a situation where you can deal the most optimal BB primary and splash, if you missed with Energy Mastery, you can recast, this presumably returns a %dmg of the original in any calculation, since you’re now counting 2xBB for the same damage dealt. Whereas, in Attack Mastery, where you don’t have the luxury of recasting due to energy constraints. If you missed, then you’ve dealt 0 dmg. Thus, your APM or EffectiveAPM has to be on point.
You can argue that by not accounting for that second cast, I’m removing that potential added DPS to Energy Mastery. However, we have to remember, in the most ideal conditions (which is what this topic is assuming in the first place… after all, we can’t be dealing damage 100% of the time). We should be dealing that 1st cast’s optimal BB damage.
Hope all of that makes sense. AKA. calculation is impossible and it is also unnecessary.
As to your question about wave-clearing. People tend to look at this far too greatly (but we’re talking about DPS not DPM (dmg per minute) because it is a major part of the game to ‘deal with waves’. However, waves actually only arrive at frequencies of a few minutes apart. This meant that as any remotely intelligent player, they should have generated enough energy for at least 1BB to deal with the wave. And generally, a wave should not need more than 1BB when cast optimally.
